Magical Contracts and Ancient Magic

[nikkalmati]

No: HPFGUIDX 190662



<big snip>
>
> > bboyminn:
> > 
> > I think likely other people and parents have died trying to
> > protect their children or to protect others, so very much I
> > think that Voldemort offered Lily a choice plays a huge 
> > role. However, it would seem that in most cases, when bad 
> > guys attack, they intend to kill everybody. They might kill
> > the kids first to torture the parents, and the parents might
> > plead 'kill me instead' but likely they were always going to
> > be killed. So, I think there is some weight given to the 
> > fact that Voldemort really would have killed Harry then just
> > walked away leaving Lily broken but alive.
> > 
> > My point is that simple self-sacrifice, or offering to die
> > instead, is not enough. There has to be the very real 
> > prospect that you will live if you yield to the bad guy, 
> > <snip>
> > So, when all things are considered, Lily's case was very
> > unique and special. I don't think those specific combinations
> > of circumstances occurs all that often. 
> 
> Mike:
> 
> I think we agree that there was special circumstances in Lily's case. My contention is that part of those circumstances include a contract that invoked ancient magic. You may be saying the same thing in a different way by including the need for a "prospect that you will live" as part of the circumstances. That's where I think the contract comes in. If Voldemort had not tendered the offer to spare Lily in the first place, there would be no initialization of life or death contract negotiations. There had to be a prospect for life for Lily to form a basis to a contract. Lily's counter-offer of her life for Harry's furthers the negotiations that Voldemort opened. If Voldemort does not make an initial offer, Lily's erstwhile counter-offer becomes simply pleading for her son's life, or as you said, simple self-sacrifice.
> 
> Or, you may be disagreeing with me. :>)
> 
> Mike
>
Nikkalmati

I think we have to take a step back and look at why LV made the offer to Lily.  She was not really impeding him.  She was wandless.  He had made a prior agreement with Snape to grant him Lily's life.  So LV is fulfilling a contract or agreement when he makes the offer.  I am not sure what kind of agreement that was.  It must have been something like a boon in return for the Prophecy.  I agree that Lily make a counter offer and her motive is love.  When LV loses patience and kills her, he seals the deal and has to live with the consequesnce of breaking their agreement.  Harry is not completely protected; he still receives a cut on the forehead through which a fragment of LV's soul enters him.  So was LV obliged to fullfil the agreement with Snape or was he obliged by his action of killing Lily (which was an acceptance of her counteroffer).

Nikkalmati