Magical Contracts and Ancient Magic

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 190664



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "nikkalmati" <puduhepa98 at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> <big snip>
> >
> > > bboyminn:
> > > 
> > > I think likely other people and parents have died trying to
> > > protect their children or to protect others, so very much I
> > > think that Voldemort offered Lily a choice plays a huge 
> > > role. ....
> > > 
> > > My point is that simple self-sacrifice, or offering to die
> > > instead, is not enough. There has to be the very real 
> > > prospect that you will live ...
> > 
> > Mike:
> > 
> > I think we agree that there was special circumstances in Lily's case. My contention is that part of those circumstances include a contract that invoked ancient magic. ...
> > 
> > Or, you may be disagreeing with me. :>)
> > 
> > Mike
> >
> Nikkalmati
> 
> I think we have to take a step back and look at why LV made the offer to Lily.  She was not really impeding him.  She was wandless.  He had made a prior agreement with Snape to grant him Lily's life.  So LV is fulfilling a contract or agreement when he makes the offer.  I am not sure what kind of agreement that was.  ...  I agree that Lily make a counter offer and her motive is love.  When LV loses patience and kills her, he seals the deal and has to live with the consequesnce of breaking their agreement.  ...
> 
> Nikkalmati
>


Steve:

We know there are "Magically Binding Contracts". Harry entries into one when he submits his name to the Goblet of Fire, even though we know he didn't personally do it. 

We know some type of Ancient Magic was invoked when Voldy killed Lily and tried to kill Harry.

Also note the the basic protections Harry received from that sacrifice was further enhanced by efforts from Dumbledore, and Petunia's acceptance of Harry into their house. Petunia's act of taking Harry in sealed that particular protective magic. One could consider that a conclusion of a contract. Dumbledore made a magical offer, Petunia accepted, and that sealed the deal and activated the Protection.

My point in saying this is to remind people that the total protection afforded Harry does not come completely from Lily's sacrifice. Dumbledore and Petunia play a part in extending Lily's protection beyond what it originally was.  

But, specifically what does it take to make a casual contract a MAGICAL Contract.

RON: Get me cup of coffee will you?

HARRY: Sure.

RON: Where's my coffee?

HARRY: Oh...sorry, I forgot. 

On the most casual level this could be considered a contract. But is it Magically Binding because it is made by magical people, and what are the consequences of violating the contract? Does Harry drop dead because he forget to get Ron a cup of coffee? 

There has to be some specific and unique characteristic for magic to be invoked. Or, at least, in my opinion.

But that is that 'specific and unique characteristic'?

We speak, metaphorically, of Lily and Voldy negotiating a 'contract'. We know that Voldy and Snape had a previous 'contract'. And that is a perfectly valid metaphor for purposes of analyzing the event, but at what point is ancient magic invoked, and at what point is a Magically Binding Contract created? 

I think in this case, repeating my previous position, it is because Lily really could have lived. Snape wanted her, Voldy was willing to grant that request, Lily could live. 

But when she threw herself in front of Harry, and said 'take me', magic was not invoked between Lily and Voldemort, but between Lily and Harry. My love shields you to my detriment and your to  protection. Harry gained protection to Voldemort's detriment. But Voldemort gained nothing by way of magic or contract. 

So, using the contract Metaphor, the contract that invoked the ancient magic had to be between Lily and Harry, not Lily and Voldemort or Snape. 

Thoughts?

Steve/bboyminn