[HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter Discussion: Prisoner of Azkaban Ch 18: Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot and Pron

[Shelley Gardner]

No: HPFGUIDX 190428

>> Questions
>> 1. Lupin says the Marauders' map never lies, could this be a support for the
>> argument that the map does not have dark magic in it? Do you agree or disagree
>> with it?
> Pippin:
> I think Lupin is just bragging about the map. It does lie, at least by omission. It doesn't know about the Room of Requirement, or, apparently, the interior of Hagrid's Hut.
>
> As for dark magic, I doubt the map was ritually dark. I don't think it required unicorn's blood, or murder, or desecrating a grave, etc. James would've been repelled. But if its making required lots of tricky and  dangerous spellwork that could've injured its makers and innocent bystanders if it went wrong -- well, that is just the sort of thing that James and Sirius would have found irresistible.
>
> Another point -- as we've  heard lately, collecting information about people's whereabouts without their permission is not really nice.  The Marauders certainly objected to Snape collecting information about them!
>
> Most important, the map  did try to lure Harry out of school, and into danger, and it did not care that the danger was much worse than normal. As Lupin said, the map makers would have thought that was amusing. Lupin himself thought the map was too dangerous for Harry to have as long as there was real danger around. So I think that Harry is right to regard the map with a certain dubious appreciation.

Shelley now:
Dark magic, hmmm... should be shunned by anyone trying to keep 
appearances up, but what about the object itself? The map itself isn't 
inherently evil, although it certainly could be used for less than 
honerable purposes. I can image that a headmaster might justify using 
this map to protect his students, for it would tell of any person on the 
castle premises that ought not to be there, or of kids sneaking out when 
they shouldn't, but the real danger of any dark device would be to suck 
you into staring at it all the time, instead of using your other senses. 
It would want to make you use it more, rather than get out for a stroll 
and actually meet the kids you were protecting. I think if this map were 
truly dark, then Harry would have heard it calling to him to use it, and 
I don't see evidence of that in the book (comparing Riddle's Diary, for 
example). So, I think it's just magical, rather than Dark Magic.
>> 2. Did you believed Lupin and Black (if you remember of course) when you were
>> reading the book for the first time that Peter was in the room?
When I first read the book, I knew that I was learning something totally 
new here, and to hang on for the ride of discovery. I wasn't thinking of 
"believing" what the characters were saying, but rather thinking they 
were telling the story from their prospective, and that I was about to 
learn something new if I paid attention to the details. This also 
answers the later question about being surprised about Snape being in 
the room- I was, but then my first thought was "it figures that Snape 
would show up to spoil things" and wondered just what role he had to 
play. Whatever it was, it had to be an important one, or important to 
what I needed to know as a reader.
>> 3. As some of you may know as a Sirius' fan, but first and foremost as a reader,
>> I absolutely refuse to place all the blame for the prank on Sirius. I happen to
>> feel that just as Sirius had no business telling Snape about Remus' secret,
>> Snape had no business whatsoever of going to the Shack and nobody actually
>> forced him to go there. However as the very same reader, I am still racking my
>> brain what the hell was Sirius thinking would have happened to Remus if he were
>> to bite Snape, or if Snape would simply uncover his secret. So what was he
>> thinking? Was he thinking anything?
I am still convinced, even after several rereadings, that we don't know 
everything about the Prank. We know that it happened, but we don't know 
if Sirius let it slip just to be funny, knowing that Snape wouldn't let 
it go, or whether he knew directly that Snape was going to die, which I 
think isn't the case either. I think he was saying to Snape that since 
he was such a smarty-pants and knew everything, that he should go see 
for himself this "werewolf", and let it be on Snape's own head if he got 
himself killed while doing it. I don't think he purposely set the 
werewolf on Snape, but rather Snape's noseyness would not let it go and 
he badgered Sirius until Sirius finally tells him and lets him suffer 
the consequences. I think he told Snape "you don't want to go there", 
but knew that Snape would anyway. I think the young Snape was arrogant 
enough to think he could handle it. Only then Sirius thinks it through 
and really doesn't want Snape to die for his arrogance, nor Lupin be 
blamed for Snape forcing his way into where he didn't belong, and so he 
intervenes to save stupid Snape from himself. Of course later, Snape 
can't admit that he was being a nosey busy-body, and so he spins the 
story to say Sirius tried to have him executed. I think it was 
convienant for him to say that he didn't know there was a werewolf 
there, but I am sure he had figured it out, or thought he had, before he 
badgered Sirius into telling him how to see for himself of the truth.

Shelley