Occlumency VERY VERY LONG

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 191723


> > Shaun:
> > 
> > Harry Potter *is* the chosen one. Dumbledore didn't make him so. He 
> > *has* to put all his hopes in the fact that Harry will be willing to die 
> > to get rid of Voldemort because that is what the prophecy requires. And 
> > what he actually does in the long term is equip Harry to fulfil the 
> > prophecy in a way that does allow him to live. 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Not in my opinion, especially due to his wavering stance on how much faith he put in prophecies. How many percents of those prophecies in the Department of mysteries came true? Dumbledore cant seem to pick whether prophecy is a relevant tool, or not, but even if the prophecy is relevant and 100% reliable, it does not say in the prophecy that Harry is not allowed to be helped, it does not say that others in meantime cannot hunt Voldemort, raise a war on him in order to very least kill his Death eaters.

Pippin:
That is what the Order does -- although it does not believe in killing Death Eaters unless they refuse to surrender. But they have no reliable way to tell who is a Death Eater and who isn't.  Only Voldemort knows who they all are. Even if DE's are caught in the act, they can still get off by claiming to have been under the Imperius curse. 

It was Voldemort who declared war on Harry by deciding that he was the prophecy child. After that what Dumbledore did or didn't believe about the prophecy was irrelevant. Voldemort would never stop trying to destroy Harry.

 Harry would have no chance to survive unless Voldemort was destroyed, Voldemort could not be destroyed without destroying the horcrux(es) and, by accidentally allowing a piece of his soul to be embedded in Harry, Voldemort made Harry himself potentially his most powerful enemy. 
 
As Eowyn says in LOTR, "It needs but one foe to breed a war, not two" 


> Alla:
> 
> And I would say that he is not only committed to protect Harry Potter's life but also committed to humiliate, mock and abuse him every second of that life.

Pippin:
Harry has potions two or three times a week, plus various detentions or other lessons. That's hardly every second of his life. And Snape could not have known when he made his promise that he would still be teaching potions at Hogwarts when Harry arrived ten years later. Snape is clearly not thinking about the prospects of making Harry miserable as he makes his promise. He's concerned about how it would look and feel to have anyone know that he's committed himself to saving James Potter's son. 


Alla:
 I do not consider protecting his life in that situation (as I see it of course) an action worthy of respect. I would considered Snape much worthy of respect if he refused Dumbledore and thus forced Dumbledore to choose another protector. 

Pippin:
  Why would Snape think there was someone else who could do what Snape can do to protect Harry? If there was a person of comparable courage,  power and loyalty who had a more pleasant disposition, don't you think Dumbledore would have asked him instead? It's not like Snape and Dumbledore loved working together so much <g>

 Should Snape have let Harry go unprotected until someone with sufficiently lofty motives appeared to do the job? 

> Alla:
> 
> Sorry it makes plenty of sense to me, considering the fact that Dumbledore made sure to take Harry away from his very legally appointed guardian, and yes, I know Sirius was about to do a very rash and very irresponsible thing, but could Dumbledore predict that then?

Pippin:
Because Sirius had already proved himself unreliable. One way or another, he had allowed Voldemort to discover the Secret. 

Alla:
 No, I think Dumbledore wanted to do everything in his power that Harry would abused and scared and miserable after living with Dursleys and would look at Dumbledore as god and do anything Dumbledore would want him to do and would go and die because Dumbledore raised him to that. 

Pippin:
And is there canon that Dumbledore had this in mind? 

Many children have been rescued from abusive situations. AFAIK, this does not fill them with  a desire to save the world or give their rescuers unquestioning obedience. 

Pippin