Occlumency VERY VERY LONG

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 191742



> > Alla:
> > 
> > See, this is IMO taking the blame off Dumbledore's shoulders and taking it where
> > it absolutely does not belong. Harry took Dumbledore's words literally, how else
> > they were supposed to be taking? I would have taken it exactly like that. Share
> > the purpose of your quest only with Ron and Hermione, for me means exactly that.
> 
> Pippin:
> But Harry doesn't take it exactly like that. Nor should he. Dumbledore is dead, and Harry is an adult in command of the mission. Harry  has the authority to decide what Dumbledore's instructions mean -- who else?
> 
> Harry doesn't have any problem asking help from Kreacher, Griphook and Ollivander and sharing information with them on a need to know basis.   
> 
> So what's wrong with Lupin and Bill?
> 
> Twice, Harry received an offer of help from a trusted, powerful wizard, and twice he turned it down, preferring instead a weaker ally whom he thought he could control. 
> 
> That sounds familiar -- in fact it's exactly the same mistake his father and Sirius made, trusting Pettigrew instead of Dumbledore to be the Secret Keeper. Harry was only lucky that Griphook betrayed him on his own account and not Voldemort's. 


Alla:

Harry has control to decide whom to ask for help? Harry never violated Dumbledore's instructions where it mattered before, why would he start doing so now? Harry shared information with Kreacher and Ollivander about Horcruxes? I honestly do not remember that. And we really should ask Dumbledore what is wrong with Bill and Lupin. Harry was asked to not share information about Horcruxes with anybody else, and so he did not. And I have to very strongly disagree about "Harry an adult in control of the mission". Was it not Dumbledore who controlled Harry from his grave and made sure that Snape delivered information about Harry needed to be dead just in exact time and exact place. I say Dumbledore played his cards incredibly well and no, Harry was not in control of that mission at all. I mean he was  in control of everyday details but not the great plan. Lets forget about Horcruxes and have to go on merry chase after Hallows? Was it Harry's idea too?! I dont know how anyone can argue that Dumbledore did not pull every single strings in book seven (and even his portrait did). Yes, at the end point Harry thought about it and decided that him dying is the best plan to defeat Voldemort, but I maintain that Dumbledore's conditioning during other fifteen years of Harry's life lead to him not even considering any other plan, any other idea. And yes, at that point he still has clear understanding that he was betrayed by Dumbledore (too bad he forgets about it after Kings Cross). Sorry, I wish Harry was in control of something significant in his life, once, but the only person who did that was IMO Dumbledore and Dumbledore only. And yes, despite Voldemort attacking Harry and his parents, I think Dumbledore had much more immediate control and influence. I think Harry showed that he can resist Voldemort pretty well, but sadly not so with Dumbledore.


> 
> Alla:
> > 
> > So why do you think Dumbledore told Harry to share his quest only with Ron and Hermione? Because his lessons and Harry's fight in book seven supposed to be the same thing, so if Dumbledore did mean for Harry to get meaningful help, why not to say - ask anybody from the Order for help, share it with them?
> 
> Pippin:
> Actually, it's Harry who asks Dumbledore for permission to tell Ron and Hermione. (HBP ch 10) Dumbledore gives it to him, and asks Harry to ask them not to repeat it to anyone else. It would not, he says, be a good idea if word got around how much he knows or suspects about Voldemort's secrets. 
> 
> There is a danger from Voldemort to anyone who knows the secrets, but also the secrets themselves are dangerous.
> 
> Dumbledore absolutely loathes horcruxes. He is uncomfortably aware that not everyone shares his aversion for them. And now Voldemort has pushed the technology further than anyone ever has.  Not only did he discover how to make more than one, they can be weaponized. 
> 
> Dumbledore knows Harry, Ron and Hermione well enough to know they will not be tempted. But the Trio themselves have not yet learned to judge character so well. 


Alla:

But only those who know the secrets of horcruxes would be really able to help Harry, so to me that is the same as leaving Harry only with his two friends for help.