Chapter Discussion: Chapter Sixteen, Goblet of Fire: The Goblet of Fire

[nikkalmati]

No: HPFGUIDX 192272






--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" <dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
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>Big skip>
 
> Potioncat: 
> > So, what I wanted to say is that I don't think this binding contact is just a plot device, because it is consistent with the magic throughout the series.
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> > Look at the contract between House Elves and Wizards. House Elves have their own powerful magic, yet they are absolutely oppressed by wizards. All it takes to break that bond, that contract, is for the wizard to give clothing to the Elf. It doesn't have to be intentional and the House Elf doesn't have to want the freedom. The accidental presenting of clothing to a House Elf frees that elf. The accidental accepting of clothing frees that elf. (Malfoy unintentionally handing a sock to Dobby; House Elves avoiding Gryffindor House so they won't pick up Hermione's hats.)
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> > We also have the pledge for Dumbledore's Army and the blood magic for Harry. Both have unspoken and narrowly defined consequences.
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> Alla:
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> I did not mean to say that magical contract which Harry allegedly entered into was the only instance when magical contracts happen in the series. I just felt it was tackled on, you know? Why wasn't it mentioned before (once you there, you done). I may not remember and it was mentioned before students enteres. I just thought it either was another one of Dumbledore's complete lies, or lies by omission. As you said, even House elf can be freed, intentional or not there has to be some sort of counteraction IMO :) and nothing here?
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> It is just hard to imagine for me that for centuries and centuries students did not know that once they got in they are in forever (as participants I mean).
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Nikkalmati

I am surprised that several people on the list, including Dumbledore,
find the Goblet to be somehow unexplained or inconsistent.  I agree with Potioncat that it fits very well within the WW.  We see other instances where rules govern and there is no exception allowed for fairness.  I would point to the Unbreakable Vow (note the twins almost got Ron to cast one as a child)- right?  I also would point to the picking of a wand where the adults and the child have no control over what choice the wand makes.  Also, we have seen no indication that children are given special protection in the WW, and the idea is pretty new in the RW too.  DD would not need to explain the requirements to the students as most of them would understand immediately there was no way to back out.

  The Goblet is an old magic which dates back who knows how many centuries;  it was not created by DD and the most he can do is surround it with an age line to keep underage wizards out.  I see no reason to think he should be able to alter its magic.  Even Fake Moody must work within the rules of the Goblet; he is not able to dictate that Harry should be chosen for Hogwarts; he can only trick the Goblet into thinking there is another school with one entry, Harry. 

  As for the punishment, I would suggest the competetor finds him or herself magically transported into the competition whether he or she wants to be there or not.  Harry would have found himself standing in the ampetheater facing a dragon unprepared or swimming in the lake in all his clothes where he had been hiding in the library. I doubt any authority would be called on to enforce the contract.  It would happen automatically.

    In line with other opinions I have written, I don't think anyone can be Legitimized without their knowing it, just as Harry saw the potions book in his own mind's eye when Snape called it up - so, no, I don't think DD Legitimized Harry at that time.  

Nikkalmati