Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fifteen, Goblet of Fire: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang

[Geoff]

No: HPFGUIDX 192218



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Nathaniel" <natti_shafer at ...> wrote:
 
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff" <geoffbannister123@> wrote:
> > > 5. How do you think the Durmstrang ship arrived in the lake? Was this
> > > apparition? Something else? Why do you think this mode of transportation was
> > > not more widely used in the Potterverse?
> > 
> > Geoff:
> > To be quite frank, I haven't thought about it in the past but I feel it has to be 
> > something other than these two we have mentioned. Maybe there are spells 
> > to transport objects plus users which are not generally known... Maybe a 
> > Dark Arts spell? We do have instances later, certainly in DH, of Voldemort 
> > and Snape flying without broomsticks so there must be other methods 
> > which JKR didn't trouble to document.
> >
> 
> Nathaniel:
> The Durmstrang ship emerges, submarine-like, from under the water. It seems to me that the ship traveled like a submarine most of the way to Hogwarts, including up the river from the ocean. 
> 
> A lake needs a river entering it and exiting it to exist. We never hear of a river into the lake, but even if it's a small river, it must be there. Whatever magic allows the ship to submerge must also allow it to travel on non-navigable rivers.
> 
> JK Rowling intentionally left the location of Durmstrang ambiguous, but to make sense, it needs an outlet to the sea.

Geoff:
>From the description of the ship's arrival, I get the feeling that it is a fairly 
big ship - seemingly something like a galleon (although that may be 
triggered by the film) but with a high mast, it would probably not be able 
to travel submerged and unseen.

There is also a question of the loch besides which Hogwarts is situated. Some
years ago, there was a long discussion on this group as to where Hogwarts 
was in the Highlands.

I argued that it had to be remote and, in my own mind, placed it somewhere 
around the Knoydart peninsula, south of Kyle of Lochhalsh and south-east 
of the Isle of Skye, being one of the remotest areas of the north-west 
Highlands with virtually no roads. What may have a possible bearing on this 
matter is that around the area, there are many sea-lochs which have direct 
access from the sea. The fresh water lochs are all more inland and often 
have quite narrow rivers flowing from them which might fit your scenario.

This then raises the point of why does the ship travel submerged anyway -if 
it hadn't used some magical means to appear in the Hogwarts loch? The 
Beauxbatons coach was quite visible to the students on its approach and 
appeared to have come all the way like that. Had it been Disillusioned against 
Muggles until on final approach? Why did the Durmstrang ship not travel in 
a similar way on the surface?

One other interesting snippet regarding this occurs, albeit well ahead of 
where we are currently investigating:

'"Wonder how the Durmstrang students are getting back?" said Ron. :D'you 
reckon they can steer that ship without Karkaroff?"

"Karkaroff did not steer,: said a gruff voice. "He stayed in his cabin and let 
us do the vork." Krum had come to say goodbye to Hermione...'
(GOF "The Beginning" p.628/29 UK edition)

I doubt whether this solves any problems, just throws up another tranche 
of them. 
:-(