Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fifteen, Goblet of Fire: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang

[Nathaniel]

No: HPFGUIDX 192219



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff" <geoffbannister123 at ...> wrote:

> Geoff:
> From the description of the ship's arrival, I get the feeling that it is a fairly 
> big ship - seemingly something like a galleon (although that may be 
> triggered by the film) but with a high mast, it would probably not be able 
> to travel submerged and unseen.
> 
> There is also a question of the loch besides which Hogwarts is situated. Some
> years ago, there was a long discussion on this group as to where Hogwarts 
> was in the Highlands.
> 
> I argued that it had to be remote and, in my own mind, placed it somewhere 
> around the Knoydart peninsula, south of Kyle of Lochhalsh and south-east 
> of the Isle of Skye, being one of the remotest areas of the north-west 
> Highlands with virtually no roads. What may have a possible bearing on this 
> matter is that around the area, there are many sea-lochs which have direct 
> access from the sea. The fresh water lochs are all more inland and often 
> have quite narrow rivers flowing from them which might fit your scenario.
> 
> This then raises the point of why does the ship travel submerged anyway -if 
> it hadn't used some magical means to appear in the Hogwarts loch? The 
> Beauxbatons coach was quite visible to the students on its approach and 
> appeared to have come all the way like that. Had it been Disillusioned against 
> Muggles until on final approach? Why did the Durmstrang ship not travel in 
> a similar way on the surface?
> 
> One other interesting snippet regarding this occurs, albeit well ahead of 
> where we are currently investigating:
> 
> '"Wonder how the Durmstrang students are getting back?" said Ron. :D'you 
> reckon they can steer that ship without Karkaroff?"
> 
> "Karkaroff did not steer,: said a gruff voice. "He stayed in his cabin and let 
> us do the vork." Krum had come to say goodbye to Hermione...'
> (GOF "The Beginning" p.628/29 UK edition)
> 
> I doubt whether this solves any problems, just throws up another tranche 
> of them. 
> :-(
>

Nathaniel:
The ship travelling submerged falls in line with Durmstrang's secretive nature. We get hints that all 3 schools keep a few secrets to themselves, but Durmstrang is so secretive that they don't let outsiders even know what country it's in. 

I agree that the Durmstrang ship is on the big side, but I don't agree that that necessarily means it has to be unseen. We have examples of muggles not seeing things they should be able to see. The Knight Bus squeezes into spaces it shouldn't be able to fit. Mail boxes, lamp posts, rubbish bins, and even trees leap out of the way.

Although, the Knight Bus could also support Geoff's original supposition. The Knight Bus jumps "a hundred miles at a time." (PA3) It seems that the Knight Bus needs to get to full speed, there's a loud BANG, and the bus makes its jump. That leads credence to the idea that the ship can transport itself magically somewhere, such as directly into the lake. As you quite rightly point out, some steering of the ship takes place. Maybe the ship picks up full speed and then teleports somewhere.

That still leaves open the question of whether the ship can teleport directly into the lake. We know you can't apparate onto Hogwarts grounds, but you can take a portkey. Harry takes a portkey both in and out of the Hogwarts grounds. (Out via the Triwizard Cup; into Dumbledore's office via a statue head.) We also see the rules of apparation temporarily suspended so students can learn apparation. So I can't definitely rule out that it teleports into the lake.

On the other hand, the Knight Bus does not jump onto the Hogwarts grounds. It makes its jump to Hogsmeade, near the Hog's Head, and then drives the remaining distance to the gates of Hogwarts where it lets everyone off. (OP24)

We really don't have enough evidence either way to say definitely how the Durmstrang Ship gets into the lake. But I'm still partial to my original theory of the ship "sailing" there from Durmstrang, underwater.