John the Baptist?

[Tim Regan]

Hi All,

'Mind if I go back to the John the Baptist thread again?

<Catherine the_old_crowd 581>
I don't think that John the Baptist was ever mentioned in an 
interview, but I do recall people using the interview to speculate, 
and one of the theories which came up was a Jesus Christ/John the 
Baptist, Harry/Neville analogy.
</Catherine>

<Penny the_old_crowd 588>
Re: John the Baptist ------> I'm wondering if this reference has 
come up in discussions because of the fact that he was allegedly 
beheaded.  Athena has a fairly extensive theory worked out that 
Harry won't just die in the end, but will be beheaded in fact.
</Penny>

<Dumbledad HPforGrownups 64663>
There's a long line of great leaders working for `the one' to fulfil 
a prophesy: Dumbledore, Morpheus in The Matrix, Yoda in Star Wars, 
John the Baptist in The Bible.
</Dumbledad>

For me the parallel isn't Harry or Neville as John the Baptist, but 
Dumbledore. He's the one who was esteemed as the saviour (his power 
is repeatedly mentioned in keeping Voldemort at bay), and yet he 
knows that it is someone else mentioned in the prophesy. Now, if we 
identify Dumbledore as John the Baptist, then we may be implying 
some kind of crucifixion for Harry, like Neo's death in Matrix III, 
but let's concentrate on the implications for Dumbledore. If the 
parallel remains close, then we'd expect to see him imprisoned and 
then beheaded by a king to impress a queen and her daughter. The 
actual bible passage doesn't say much (I'll include the two passages 
at the end of this post).

But, since then, the legend has been reworked several times with 
Salomé , Herodias's daughter, taking on a larger and larger role. 
Because of Accio's http://www.accio.org.uk/ location in Reading I've 
been thinking about Oscar Wilde recently, and he wrote a stage 
version, in French, in 1896 called "Salomé". In fact the story had 
become an icon for gay men, so at a time when homosexual sex was 
illegal, a picture of the Salomé legend on one's wall was one of the 
inferences used by gay men to identify each other. There's also a 
Strauss opera of the same name based on the Oscar Wilde play, which 
is famous for Salomé's dance of the seven veils.

So, that leaves us looking for an influential mother and daughter 
and a powerful man. The man will imprison Dumbledore (how?!?!?) and 
then the women will persuade him to kill Dumbledore. Any guesses who 
the women could be – could Mrs Malfoy or Bellatrix seduce the next 
MoM?

Having said all that, the other John the Baptist prototypes, Yoda 
and Morpheus, die peacefully of old age or outlive their heir 
respectively.

Cheers,

Dumbledad.

Matthew 14
1   At that time Herod the tetrarch heard of the fame of Jesus,
2   And said unto his servants, This is John the Baptist; he is 
risen from the dead; and therefore mighty works do shew forth 
themselves in him.
3   For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in 
prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife.
4   For John said unto him, It is not lawful for thee to have her.
5   And when he would have put him to death, he feared the 
multitude, because they counted him as a prophet.
6   But when Herod's birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias 
danced before them, and pleased Herod.
7   Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she 
would ask.
8   And she, being before instructed of her mother, said, Give me 
here John Baptist's head in a charger.
9   And the king was sorry: nevertheless for the oath's sake, and 
them which sat with him at meat, he commanded it to be given her.
10   And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison.
11   And his head was brought in a charger, and given to the damsel: 
and she brought it to her mother.

Mark 6
21   And when a convenient day was come, that Herod on his birthday 
made a supper to his lords, high captains, and chief estates of 
Galilee;
22   And when the daughter of the said Herodias came in, and danced, 
and pleased Herod and them that sat with him, the king said unto the 
damsel, Ask of me whatsoever thou wilt, and I will give it thee.
23   And he sware unto her, Whatsoever thou shalt ask of me, I will 
give it thee, unto the half of my kingdom.
24   And she went forth, and said unto her mother, What shall I ask? 
And she said, The head of John the Baptist.
25   And she came in straightway with haste unto the king, and 
asked, saying, I will that thou give me by and by in a charger the 
head of John the Baptist.
26   And the king was exceeding sorry; yet for his oath's sake, and 
for their sakes which sat with him, he would not reject her.
27   And immediately the king sent an executioner, and commanded his 
head to be brought: and he went and beheaded him in the prison,
28   And brought his head in a charger, and gave it to the damsel: 
and the damsel gave it to her mother.

(N.B. This Salomé is probably not the same Salomé who is said to be 
a witness to the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ in Mark 15:40.)