Lupin quotes

[pippin_999]

Rynne:

And I can't stand the idea that MWPP were just bullies picking on 
poor widdle Snape; aside from painting MWPP completely as 
bad guys (they were human and flawed, but not evil



Pippin:

Do you think the centaurs suddenly became bad guys when they 
decided to carry off Harry and Hermione? Or is it the sense of the 
canon that  normal people with high ideals are capable of 
committing atrocities if someone doesn't stop them?
 
 Pippin:
That is what I am saying. The courage to do the right thing under 
such circumstances is rarer than we would like to think. Neville  
had it in PS/SS, Lily had it in the Pensieve. Two out of hundreds 
of named characters.
 
Rynne:
So...everyone who doesn't have that courage, which you admit to 
as being rarer that we would like to think, is perforce ESE? 


Pippin:
Everyone who doesn't have that courage is vulnerable to 
Voldemort, yes. Or, in real world terms, to condoning atrocities 
and violence against the innocent and helpless.

Rynne:
 Just because Lupin doesn't have that quality doesn't make him 
a bad person, *especially* at his age and in his situation.  I 
doubt WPP would ever seriously think about this, but they *could* 
concievably haveblackmailed Lupin, you know.

Pippin:
::sigh:: As could Voldemort. That's what I'm afraid of. 


 Pippin:
He says he never told them they were out of line. Think about 
that and remember that Sirius eventually tried to kill Snape. 
 
Rynne:
 *sigh* Until we know more about the Whomping Willow incident, 
I'm withholding judgment on everything connected to it.  There's 
so manydifferent scenarios that could be imagined; I personally 
think thatSirius was just impulsive and thoughtless and thought 
he would justscare Snape.  Real murder never crossed his 
mind.  I think he thoughtthat Snape dead in the abstract was all 
right, but not in reality,especially not if he and a friend of his
were responsible and could be punished for it.  I can't imagine 
that this seriously was premeditated.
 
 Anyway, I'm not entirely sure what your argument is here.  Are 
yousuggesting that it was *Remus* who suggested that Sirius 
send Snape tothe Shack?  Or that because Remus didn't check 
Sirius, Sirius thought it was all right to send Snape to the Shack?  
Clarify, please. :)


Pippin:
I agree that the willow incident wasn't Siriusly premeditated.  But 
that leaves us with the question of how Snape, whom we agree 
can take care of himself, just happened to enter the willow when 
Lupin was there. 

( Unlike Sirius, Lupin actually had a compelling motive for killing 
Snape, provided he could get away with it. Canon says Snape 
thinks he was in on it.  It would be rather insipid for Snape to 
realize that he's been wrong about that, so I think we'll
find out that he was right. But time will tell.)


 Regardless, it seems that even after this incident which could 
have ruined Lupin's own life if he'd been blamed for biting 
Snape or killing him,  Lupin says he never told them to lay off 
Snape or that they were going too far. My point is that Lupin is 
being portrayed as someone who would do anything to keep his 
friends, even condone an action that resulted in him being 
blamed for murder. Of  course in those days none of his friends 
were DE's. But that changed.


Pippin:
Post-Hogwarts, Lupin  probably had more experience with the 
Umbridge/Crouch Sr. face of the wizarding government than with 
the Arthur Weasley/Amelia Bones side. Outside of Hogwarts, 
Voldemort seems to be the only adult wizard we've met so far 
who even pretends to  take the battle for non-human rights 
seriously. It's not much of a choice, is it? 
  
  
Rynne: 
 
 You're right, it's not much of a choice--but I don't think Lupin 
would choose the way you think he would.  Remus isn't stupid.  
He knows thatVoldemort is against Muggles and Muggleborn, 
and that he tortures andkills them and enjoys it, and Muggles 
and Muggleborn are all at least fully human!  It doesn't seem a 
gigantic leap in logic that Voldemort doesn't really care for 
nonhuman rights either, and in the typicalwizarding world way 
thinks them beneath him, and I'm sure Remus would consider 
that.


Pippin:
I don't think it's that simple. In the first place, it
wasn't clear at the time that Voldemort was responsible for 
torturing Muggles and Muggleborns. Sirius says many people 
didn't realize what Voldemort was capable of at first, including 
his parents and his brother. Regulus was younger than Lupin, 
so Voldemort had even less of an evil reputation when Lupin left 
school.

Even at the present time in the story, the goblins are considering 
joining Voldie, although they know that Voldemort has killed 
goblin families. Maybe it's a calculated risk: the Ministry might 
make concessions to keep the goblins on their side. Maybe they 
don't believe the stories; they're constantly being maligned by 
wizards themselves, so they'd have to wonder if Voldemort isn't 
the victim of a bad press, too.Lupin wouldn't want to
make up his mind by what he'd heard. He'd want to see for 
himself. And Voldemort can be so charming. Of course he 
*looks*  like a monster, but then that wouldn't bother Lupin, 
would it?


Another  wild card in all this is the other werewolves. Did Lupin 
make friends among them after Hogwarts? Could he have felt 
more at home with them than with his old friends, who probably 
couldn't sneak out with him at full moons any more? Could they 
have convinced him  to turn against the tyrannical  ministry, or 
even just to pass along any information that might help his 
friends resist? And could Voldemort have used that to blackmail 
Lupin into spying on the Order? 

There are so many ways Lupin could have fallen: trickery, jinxes, 
blackmail, misplaced idealism, that I don't think that's the
main question.  The question is, having foolishly or inadvertently 
put himself in Voldemort's power, would he have the courage to 
admit to Dumbledore that's what he'd done? Or would he try to 
cover up his mistake and flounder deeper in? Canon is not 
encouraging.

Pippin