[the_old_crowd] Re: something to read (i.e. His Dark Materials)

Thu Jan 29 01:16:13 UTC 2004

First of all, I have to say that I really love these books and agree whole heart with eveything Neil, Ebony, and Tim had to say.  However, I also agree that they're pretty creepy.  One of the reasons I think these novels are excellent is the fact that they are creepy.  They certainly don't leave you with nothing to think about, do they?  Any book or movie that creeps into your brian after you've finished it gets a thumbs up in my book -- even if I didn't like it.  The movie Fargo, for example -- great movie, but I can not watch it.

SPOILER ALERT!  If you haven't read HDM do not read the rest of this e-mail!

I think the thing that bothers me most is that Lyra and Will have sex at the end and these kids are 13!   I know that some people will argue that they don't actually "go all the way" -- but they are clearly having VERY intimate contact, particularly by the standards of Lyra's world.  What would we do if Harry and Hermione were sneaking off to the Forbidden Forest in PoA when THEY were 13?  Certainly, Will and Lyra are having sex for a purpose in the context of the novel (even if they don't know that) and any intercourse Harry might have would be totally gratuitious within the context of HP.  Still, 13, that's a wee bit on the young side (and, hey, I was no saint in high school).  I get why they do it and I'm glad they did, but I really wish they were a little older.  Is that just the mom coming out?  Am I going to start telling young women to cover up that belly and find some decent pants?  

Thanks for the input.  I read these with a reading group and I'm certainly printing out and taking with for our meeting.  

So what else are you all reading lately?
Stephanie

-----Original Message----- 
From: mo.hue at ... on behalf of Monika Huebner 
Sent: Wed 1/28/2004 12:58 PM 
To: the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com 
Cc: 
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Re: something to read (i.e. His Dark Materials)

	Penny said:

	> Monika voiced my issues with HDM rather better than I might have, 
	> but I just wanted to add to something that she mentioned:

	I'm glad I'm not all alone with my opinion. Now I remember HDM has
	been discussed a bit a (long) while ago over at HPFGU when I was still
	active on that list. I remember someone saying that Book 1 was about
	torturing children, and this is just how I perceived it myself. It's
	not that I want my characters to be always happy and live happily ever
	after, but I found that what Mrs Coulter and her minions did to those
	children was gratuitous cruelty and reminded me a bit of experiments
	done by ruthless doctors in the Third Reich. Along the lines of: let's
	just try this and see what happens. There's violence in the HP series,
	too, but of a different quality IMHO.

	> I find this to be rather amusing on one hand.  It's so clear that 
	> the Christian fundamentalist objections to HP are founded on what 
	> they *heard* through the media due to the media heavily 
	> saturating the American market with HP pieces for so many years.  
	> If they were actually *reading* children's literature in the 
	> main, they'd know that HDM presents a far greater threat to their 
	> interests than HP.  

	Very good point. I am convinced that most of those declaring the HP
	books to be dangerous have never read them. There was a case like that
	in the German press not long ago (some time before Christmas), where
	someone had taken sentences out of context to "prove" that the HP
	books encourage criminal behavior and are thus dangerous for young
	readers. For example, "I solemnly swear that I am up to no good." Of
	course the author of this pamphlet didn't say it was the incantation
	for the Marauder's map, and someone who hasn't read the books might
	very well conclude that his children should not read them.

	> I didn't actually know much about Pullman until I had finished 
	> HDM.  I read all 3 books on a beach vacation a couple of years 
	> ago and came back to see in general what was being said on the 
	> internet.  Being a Christian, I found Pullman's world view and 
	> anti-organized religion message in these books to be unsettling, 
	> and though I'm by no means the kind of person who avoids 
	> literature that challenges me to think about my viewpoints, I 
	> just couldn't shake the feeling of unease as I was reading them.  

	I am not a religious person, but I still found his message jarring. I
	don't mind religious overtones in SF or fantasy if the author handles
	it well, but Pullman didn't. And since I didn't find the overall world
	or the characters to my taste, it added to my dislike of the series.

	> I then of course found out that he is vehemently anti-organized 
	> religion.  I'm still glad I read the series for myself, but I'd 
	> never re-read it.  

	It's still on my shelf, but I don't think I'll re-read it either. At
	least not as long as I have hundreds of books that look more
	interesting, but of course reading tastes vary from person to person.

	Monika

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