[the_old_crowd] Some speculations on the night at GH

[Rebecca Bowen]

From: "Lyn J. Mangiameli"

<Charme note: liberally snipped an engaging post for conciseness - please 
forgive>

The first and foremost is that no spell, AK or otherwise, directed towards 
baby Harry, was
summoned forth during the PI in the graveyard scene.  <snip>

Second is the Ollivander statement that the wand that gave you that scar 
came from the
brother to this wand (i.e. the LV wand). This would directly contradict the 
above, only if we
assume the scar was caused by magic that was channeled/emitted by the LV 
wand.
<snip>

Third is the scene of his mother and LV contained in Harry's memory (I will 
overlook that
such a vivid and accurate recollection of such a scene is not compatible 
with our real world
understanding of episodic memory at that age). Here we hear Lilly say "take 
me" and LV
say step aside silly girl. This points towards possession, prior to or 
instead of death of
young HP.

<snip>

This suggests to me that possession of HP would have been at least one of 
the motivations for LV at GH,
and indeed why LV would make a personal visitation rather than employing his 
DEs to do
the dirty work.

Then we have the point that Phil makes about LV in the graveyard scene, that 
In GoF
Chapter 'The Death Eaters' Page 567 UK'I remember only forcing myself, 
sleeplessly,
endlessly, second by second, to exist...'from Voldemort to the assembled 
Death Eaters.
This makes one seriously wonder just how much LV truly recalls from GH that 
night. (Alas,
I feel this one only meets a low standard of proof.) Perhaps even some of 
LV's "memories"
are more confabulation (or maybe even sourced from another at the scene) and 
for
"impression management" than true.

<snip Peter persona evaluation & possible events as described at GH>

Charme:

I can understand and agree with some of your points, Lyn. One I particularly 
agree with is the significance of LV actually at GH; JKR has said that as 
we've seen, LV rather likes his hencemen to do his dirty work. So his actual 
presence there means something I'm sure, however the Potters are a couple 
who have thrice defied him, no easy mark for the DeathEaters and people LV 
may have thought he needed to take care of himself based on his supposed 
limited knoweldge of the prophecy contents. Harry's memory of Lily's "take 
me instead" and a voice's statement to "step aside, silly girl" could be 
interpreted to mean possession rather than AK, but I have trouble with it - 
specifically the statements as Harry remembers them in PoA:
"Not Harry, not Harry, please not Harry!"

 "Stand aside, you silly girl... stand aside, now...."

 "Not Harry, please no, take me, kill me instead --"

Numbing, swirling white mist was filling Harry's brain.... What was he 
doing? Why was he flying? He needed to help her... She was going to die.... 
She was going to be murdered....

 He was falling, falling through the icy mist.

 "Not Harry! Please... have mercy... have mercy....

 Presumably, Harry recalls Lily specifically saying "take me, kill me 
instead."  If we are to assume the memory of her statement is correct, then 
it can be interpreted as "take my life, kill me instead of Harry." I also 
think another plausible explanation for why, during LV's and Harry's wand 
episode in the GoF graveyard, we didn't see the curse which took LV out of 
his body - first LV didn't die (and all the people who came out of his wand 
did die) and second, what if LV's AK curse was interrupted by Lily's 
sacrifice? I can easily see where LV wings an AK curse at Harry and Lily 
*flings herself into its path.* The curse could have passed thru her, 
killing her, to Harry and releasing whatever protection he had to bounce it 
back to LV.

I don't know how much I believe TR in CoS when he tells Harry that his 
mother "didn't have to die" but she sacrificed herself for Harry, but it 
appears to be (on the surface anyway) in line with what DD also tells Harry. 
(I'm also sure it's not an action, the sacrifice, which TR/LV can even 
understand given his lack of humanity.)  DD himself supports the statement 
that LV tried to kill Harry, and since DD is JKR's voice in a sense, one I 
don't think that can discount that. Since we don't know what the effect of 
an interrupted AK curse would be in this fashion, JKR will have to explain 
it to us. If true, this could support events transpiring as I've 
brainstormed above.

Lots of mentioning in PoA as well that Peter is the man of explosions,  but 
what if Peter is there in his Animagus form, possibly hiding in the shadows 
to watch? Possibly he may have transfigured after the failed curse?  He 
could have cause the explosion just trying to use LV's wand to cover his 
tracks just as he did to escape from Sirius.  I also think you're correct 
that LV doesn't remember everything which transpired there and has only 
recently pieced parts of it together from  Quirrell, Peter, and Ginny. In 
Peter's case, it's

Something which came to mind whilst reading your post  - JKR specifically 
stated in her last appearance that we should be wondering how LV lived and 
what steps he took to protect himself prior to the showdown with the 
Potters. What if LV went to GH in the company of a Dementor or 2?

Charme