unicorns and religious references in HP (was checking out the library book

[pippin_999]

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, Olivier Fouquet
<olivier.fouquet at p...> wrote:
> 
>  > Kneasy:
>  > It's not a convincing argument IMO, to be convincing it would
need to persuade an objective non-Christian, not just those that
appear to want it to be so, so I took up the cudgels.
> 
> Olivier
> I am an objective non-Christian, inasmuch as you could be an 
> "objective" anything. I am totally devoid of any belief in the 
> Christian religion nor in any other for that matter. Yet, as I have 
> written already, I perceive some christian religious references in
HP  (mentionned them in a previous post). However, I still side with
you  Kneasy when in comes to monks and nuns in HP.
<snip>
> PS: I would be quite curious to know how someone with a strong
belief  in another religion react to these references though. Pippin,
am I right to think you could enlighten me on this (if you wish to
answer  and feel it is quite unconnected to HP, you can send me an
 e-mail)?

Pippin:
You'll have to judge my objectivity for yourself, but I am a
non-Christian, raised a non-Christian, with a very strong Jewish 
identification. And as soon as I read that Lily's sacrifice had not 
only saved Harry, but endowed him with lasting protection,  
I thought, "Oh, Christianity. Okay, that explains the unicorn. " *

After that I had my radar switched on, so to speak, and that's why 
I think  the incidental mentions are just as significant as the
biggies like souls and prophecies. Unlike JKR I have
read massive amounts of fantasy, and one of the things an
author does when establishing an AU is show, early on, what's 
*not* different about it. Those things are likely to be significant. 
The Potterverse,  whatever else it may be, is not a universe where 
Christianity never existed, though it's carefully established,
via mention of Egyptian tombs and the Ollivander's sign,  that
the wizarding culture pre-dates it. 

I wasn't surprised to learn that the  author had a strong
identification with Christianity, or that she felt  that expounding 
on her beliefs would give the storyline away.

It could be, of course, that my reading of HP was colored by
my previous reading of Tolkien and Lewis. You can guess by 
my handle that I am a big Tolkien fan.
 
(Lewis, not so much. I'm tempted to borrow his own description 
of mythology "gleams of light falling on a jungle of filth and 
imbecility" but that's a bit strong. Still, the breaking
of the  stone table, when I finally figured it out, stung a little.)

I didn't have any trouble detecting religious content in Tolkien, 
and I wasn't surprised when he noted, in The Road Goes
Ever On, that the Elves sing hymns to Elbereth and that such 
references to religion in The Lord of the Rings were often 
overlooked.

It's  possible that my upbringing in the hugely Catholic city
of Chicago has left me oversensitive. A Jew in such an environment
has to be constantly vigilant about the boundaries between
'American' culture and 'Christian' culture. It might be that
things read 'Christian' to me which to Christians themselves
would seem secular. However, one should be aware that
the meaning of the word 'secular' has changed. It originally
applied to Christian institutions, chartered as such, governed 
by civil authorities. So this distinction between religious and
secular is itself a product of Christian thought.


I haven't read Johnson, however the middle ages and the matter
of Britain have been a passion of mine since childhood and I have 
loads of books about them, including primary sources
in translation. I wouldn't want to give an opinion of Johnson's 
book till I've read it, but since it's out of print that may take
a while (must check amazon.uk).

I think the Christian content  of HP will go on being allusive and 
symbolic, rather than strictly allegorical, so unless Jo comes 
right out and says, "I intended thus and so to be a Christian 
message" this issue will always be open for debate. However, 
I do think the books are most definitely the products of a 
Christian sensibility. 

They've got a certain, well, optimism, about them that I associate
with Christianity. When a Jew writes fantasy you
get Lemony Snickett. Or Superman. Or Bewitched. There is
that sense,  which I don't get in HP, that however many times 
a happy ending is achieved, the existence of
goodness itself is precarious. There's no kryptonite in the
Potterverse.


Pippin
 
*I am sorry to quote myself being dismissive, but you can see from 
my thought process that I didn't  *want* the books to have Christian 
content. On the other hand, I don't object to reading books by 
authors with viewpoints other than my own. I  enjoy finding out what 
other folks believe and think, which is probably why I enjoy the
lists so much.