More on Secret Keepers (was: Re: Who knew that Peter ...)

[Judy]

Anne said:
>>>A lot would depend on how the secret was worded, I suppose....
Suppose the secret was "James, Lily, and Harry Potter are hidden in
[such and such a house] in Godric's Hollow."  Once the house was
destroyed, there would be no more secret -- anyone could now find 
them....
"James, Lily, and Harry Potter are living in Godric's Hollow" would
allow anyone to find dead bodies (though only one who knew the secret
would have been able to find The Boy Who Lived...<<<

Good post, Anne!  I agree, the wording would matter a lot.  Whatever 
the wording was, the Secret must no longer be in effect, because 
Harry's location is no longer a secret. 

Snow said:
>>>Seems a few people take the secret keeper switch, as though Sirius 
was Going to be the secret keeper but changed to Pettigrew at the 
last moment. Sirius Was the secret keeper
end sentence. Dumbledore 
was certain of it and "gave evidence" to the Ministry (herein is the 
key words, gave evidence). What evidence would someone have that 
could prove that Sirius was indeed the secret keeper
<<<

I don't believe that Sirius was ever the Secret Keeper.  Dumbledore 
is not supposed to be infalliable; he could have believed Sirius to 
be the Secret Keeper even if that was not the case.  I think 
Dumbledore's evidence was simply that he had discussed the Fidelius 
Charm with the Potters, and the Potters said that Sirius would be the 
Secret Keeper.  Possibly, Sirius also told Dumbledore that he would 
be the Secret Keeper. Given that the only other people known to be 
involved in the secret were either dead (James & Lily) or "known" to 
have murdered thirteen people (Sirius), Dumbledore's testimony of 
James & Lily's plan to make Sirius the Secret Keeper would have been 
pretty strong evidence -- not that the Ministry requires much 
evidence to send people to Azkaban. 

The books say nothing about changing Secret Keepers, and I don't 
believe that it's supposed to be possible. 

Snow also said:
>>>Hagrid is the keeper of the keys of Hogwarts that is protected by 
charms as to its whereabouts. Every first year student goes to 
Hogwarts by way of Hagrid via a boat and I would bet that this is 
Hagrid's way to allocate the secret of where Hogwarts is located. I 
very much doubt that Hagrid was the first keeper of the 'keys' at 
Hogwarts so I would tend to believe that they simply switched who 
held the key previously, which didn't change its protection or who 
previously knew how to find it.<<<

I have wondered why the first years go by boat -- the idea that 
Hagrid has to show them the  castle because he is "Keeper of the 
Keys" is a very good one. (Although the Durmstrang and Beauxbatons 
students presumably found the castle via some other method.)  Still, 
even if one needs to find the location of Hogwarts by following 
someone with the Keys, and those Keys can be switched between people, 
I don't think that tells us that a Fidelius Secret Keeper can be 
switched. 

Talisman noted that JKR posted:
>>>*The only people who ever knew their [the Potters's] precise 
location were those whom Wormtail had told directly...*
That deflates the Wormtail-handed-out-little-notes theory<<<

And Jo said:
>>>Does it? Why?
DD told Harry about 12 Grimmauld Place using a note, why couldn't
Wormtail also communicate using handy post its?<<<

Right -- My interpretation of the statement, "Wormtail had told 
directly" was that it meant, "people whom Wormtail told himself, 
rather than telling an intermediary who then told them."  I didn't 
take it as meaning. "people whom Wormtail told while standing face-to-
face."  After all, JKR was explaining how the Fidelius Charm works, 
and that no one but the Secret Keeper could reveal the Secret.  She 
wasnt't saying that Secrets can't be passed via notes, since we 
already know that they can be. 


Now, moving on from Peter to his Voldieness: 

Talisman explained
>>>why wouldn't LV just make people
his Hx SKs, and then kill them, thus insuring no one could ever find
the blasted things again
...
Because you never know who's going to come back as a ghost, that's
why.<<<

Oh, good point about the ghosts.  Also, I assume that to create the 
Secret, you first have to tell the secret to the prospective Secret 
Keeper, and then spend some time doing the "immensely complex" 
Fidelius Charm with the Secret Keeper's consent and participation.  
Telling someone about a Horcrux would make Voldemort more vulnerable, 
at least for a short time.  If he told a non-follower, that person 
would likely refuse to be the Secret Keeper and/or try to escape.  
And Voldemort probably wouldn't want to use one of his followers as 
the Secret Keeper either.  I mean, Bellatrix & Barty Jr. might be 
willing to die for him, but would Voldemort really want to kill 
them?  Rabidly loyal followers don't grow on trees. 

By the way, I think we should assume that it takes at least two 
people to do a Fidelius Charm.  If Voldemort could simply use himself 
as the Secret Keeper, he would have presumably used the Fidelius 
Charm to turn the existence, identity, and location of his Horcruxes 
into protected Secrets.  But then, Dumbledore would have never 
figured the Horcruxes out and we'd have a major plot hole. So let's 
just assume that the Fidelius Charm doesn't work that way, OK?  (This 
also explains why James & Lily couldn't be their own Secret Keepers.) 

Talisman also explained: 
> Once you've shot your wad, SK-wise, it's out of your hands.  You
> can't decide to make another SK for the same secret, because you can
> no longer ever tell anyone, yourself.
	
To which Neri replied:
> Not exactly. If the secret is the house where the Hx was hidden, and
> you have a reason to suspect that the SK (dead or not) had
> blabbered, you just take the Hx out of this house and hide it 
> somewhere else, using another SK.

Hmmm...  Once the Fidelius Charm has been performed, does the person 
who originally told the Secret to the Secret Keeper still know the 
Secret?  Or would Voldemort need the Secret Keeper to tell him the 
location of his Horcrux in order to find it? 

At any rate, I don't think Voldemort would want to make the 
*location* of the Horcrux the secret, or at least not the ONLY 
secret.  Really, the big secret is that Voldie *has* one (or more) 
Horcrux(es) in the first place, and the identity of said Horcruxes.  
The location only matters if people know that the Horcruxes exist in 
the first place.  


-- Judy, who thinks Dumbledore is really dead (alas!), even if the 
FAQ about his singing doesn't say so