'chained these 12 years..'

[Talisman]

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" 
<catlady at ...> wrote:
> --- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Talisman" <talisman22457@>
> wrote:
> > Talisman staggers in at ~3:55am:

CL: 
> From somewhere in the US Eastern time zone. My Pacific Daylight Time
> computer logged you at 12:56am.

T:
Indeed, from the bounds of Eastern Standard Time...far from those 
balmy Pacific sands, in the region of those fresh water inland seas, 
The Great Lakes.

T then:
> > This is old ground for my inflamed brain. 

CL: 
> MAGIC DISHWASHER plus plus.

T:
I've noted, more than once, that I absolutely agree with MD to the 
extent that DD and his operatives are running the action in PoA.

After that we part company. DD was laying his plans *at least* from 
the time Riddle was a lad.

He planned the events in PoA back when he allowed Sirius to take the 
fall for GH and Wormtail's death, etc.

  
Carolyn said:
> << << It really has never been explained why Peter did spend 12 
years
> as a rat, as far as we know not transforming back to a man at any
> point. >> >>

T then: 
> << We are shown that, had Wormtail allowed anyone to know he was 
still
> alive, loyal DEs would have popped a cap in him for his perceived 
role
> in LV's downfall. >>

CL:
> How many DEs knew about Wormtail? I accept that utterly loyal Bella
> and her acolytes knew, thus able to shout about it in their 
>nightmares in Azkaban for Sirius to hear. Anyone else? 
> 
> Not Lucius, according to the later part of your post in which Snape
> tells Lucius about Peter and Sirius in the summer before book 3. (If
> you explained Malfoy's role before this post, I must have 
>forgotten. I appreciate hearing about it now.)

T:
Sorry if I wasn't clear.  I totally agree that the DE's--even Lucius--
knew Pettigrew was the SK/traitor/spy, that's exactly why they 
believed he had a role in Lv's downfall.  As in the cite I offered, 
they all believed he was the "double-crossing double-crosser."

Bella and her gang--the ones that Lucius disposed of with the 
Longbottom Mission--certainly were upset about the Dark Lord's 
misfortunes.  They *would* have come after him if he had re-appeared 
soon after the showdown with Sirius.

Lucius,however, would not have had a grudge with Wormtail.  Lucius 
didn't enjoy all the DE groveling and, as I assert in other posts, 
was both happy to see LV go (wasn't about to search in the Albanian 
shrubbery, as LV himself noted), and appalled to see the old DL 
return (though he had the tact to deny it).

However, neither Lucius nor Bella's gang, nor any other DE (unless 
you count Snape ;) ) knew that Wormtail was alive and well and living 
in Ron Weasley's pocket.

This was the juicy tidbit, this and, I wager, the clever way the 
information could be used in the plot to vaccum Potter, were what  
Snape planted in Luscious Lucius's fevered brain.

Because Lucius, unlike Bella,  was not interested in whether Wormtail 
lived or died, there was no danger that he would run off and snuff 
the *traitor* rat, rather than using him as--unbeknownst to Lucius--
DD wished.
  
T then: 
> << Alternatively, had the law-abiding side of the WW noticed that he
> was still around, it would have raised a lot of sticky questions. 
>> 

CL: 
> A more plausible reason, altho' he could have claimed that he was
> heroically pursuing guilty Sirius, turned into a rat to save himself
> from the blast, came down with amnesia until something cured him and
> he remembered that he wasn't really a rat ... It would be his word
> against Black's who was the faithless SK, and wizarding Justice
> wouldn't like to admit it had been wrong. 

Ah, the old amnesia gambit...well...

Wormtail doesn't know that Lucius (and likely other DEs) wouldn't 
care if he *had* betrayed Voldemort.

Similarly, he does not know that DD *allowed* Sirius to take the rap.

He would expect both those sources to have something to say to him. 
Lucius is powerful, and DD is godlike. Wormtail could not bet on 
surviving either conversation.

As for the Ministry, and the rest of the WW, there is no doubt that 
questions would be asked.  I'm sure Sirius had other friends, beside 
Lupin.  

While it's true that Sirius never had a hearing, it's also true that 
he never spoke up for himself.  He never denied his guilt.  I'm sure 
that this went a long way toward people believing they had the right 
man.

I believe that if DD had allowed Sirius to take Harry under his wing, 
he would have fought any allegation that he had betrayed the Potters, 
or committed any subsequent murders.  

He would have devoted himself to Harry as a way of atoning for his 
fatal error.

But, as we find him, he believes that he is responsible for GH, he 
has been told he cannot raise Harry, and he believes Wormtail has 
eluded him--indeed he belives Wormtail is dead.

At this point, with atonement and revenge denied, he allows himself 
to be punished--in effect he makes that decision himself--because all 
he has left is his guilt.

If it were found that Wormtail was back in town, Sirius would be 
telling everything he knew about the situation.

If anyone in a position to look further, did, the jig would be up.

A quick Priori Incantatum, would settle the matter.

Wormtail knows this, and he'd rather be a rat than a prisoner of 
Azkaban.    


T then: 
> << What he really needed was LV, back, powerful and on his side. >>


CL:
> What he really needed was Crookshanks to go away, Sirius dead or 
>back in prison, and Ron to buy a female rat to be his companion.

T:
Well, I agree that he wanted to lie low until Sirius was caught.  He 
certainly never counted on Crookshanks <veg>.  Not so sure he was 
interested in hot rodent love, though.  While animagi brains *may* 
alter a bit when transformed, they seem to retain largely human 
intelligence. 

Still, any port in a storm, eh? :P
 

CL:
>Being a Weasley pet is a nicer job than being LV's servant.
>

T:
You're right.  Wormtail never would have gone back to LV, had not the 
events of the SS transpired. 

Once he was busted, he saw LV as his only remaning option. Hence the 
trip to Albania.

That's one of the primarly reasons for all the Order performances. To 
send Wormtail back, and make him think it was his own idea. 

The other reason has to do with Harry, naturaly.


T then: 
> << The events of the SS were a total, professional, Order SpecOp
> mission. (snip)  From DD's pov, it's time for Sirius to be out
> (setting up the next phase/Volde-proofing results in OoP, etc.),
> (snip) Lupin is Order, and no more evil that the next guy, likely 
less. >>

CL:
> I like DDM!Snape theories in which Snape did not try to get Sirius
> soul-sucked even tho' Snape knew that Peter was the real criminal. 

T:
Snape was doing exacty what he was supposed to do--as DD's agent.

Sirius was to be 1)freed; and, 2) endeared to Harry; but, 3) kept on 
the lam.

Although Harry is credited with *saving* Sirius, he really played 
into that part of the plan that kept Sirius in hiding, i.e. largely 
away from Harry and obedient to DD's orders.

You may have noticed how easy it was for DD to absolve Sirius, after 
Sirius's death.  This, though there was no body, and there were no 
witnesses save some DEs, who had their own reasons for killing the 
putative Potter SK/erstwhile Voldemortian spy.

If all they needed was Bella's word, DD could have brought her to the 
Wizengamot to testify in PoA.

Nonetheless, after a little chat with DD, Fudge was ready to accept 
that Sirius is innocent of everything.

This is exactly the way DD springs Hagrid from Azkaban in CoS: by 
*jotting up a little note*--with no other evidence at all.

CL:
> I like DDM!Lupin theories, but not those in which DDM!Lupin 
obediently shot Sirius in the chest and killed him while he was 
duelling with Bella. 

T:
Well, I don't generally put Lupin in my theory.  I think I've gon as 
far as to allow that, if Lupin did anything, he did it as an Order 
operative.

Lupin *could* have stunned Sirius, but that seems unnecessary. DD had 
already tied Sirius with the same invisible ropes (Incarcerus) he was 
using on the DEs.  

DD simply held Sirius--so that he couldn't dodge Bella's next blast--
and then made sure he went through the veil.

When DD said, after, that Sirius's death was his (DD's) fault, he 
wasn't kidding.

That's pure Guilty!DD.

CL: 
> It's not the same as theories in which DDM!Snape obediently killed 
DD, because Sirius didn't agree to it.

T:
How do you know that Sirius didn't agree?  Notice his increasingly 
bleak mood after Christmas.  Notice his tactful, regretful, avoidance 
when Harry speaks of the possibility of living with him in the future.

Now, maybe Sirius just happened to be on the dias when DD arrived, 
and DD obligingly used the gentlest method at hand to do the job.  
Then again, maybe Sirius jumped up there for a reason.

I still think the Order on Order deaths relate to that comment Lupin 
makes to Harry, in the kitchen of GP: that being in the Order entails 
awful things that they (Harry et al) can't imagine--even though Harry 
has faced death/Voldemort/Dementors/torture, etc.

We have been told that we will see Sirius's communications mirrors 
again.  But, Rowling tells us, it's not so much the message, as the 
*fact* of the mirrors that will make it meaningful.

What would it mean, if someone else has the other one?  Because 
Sirius entrusted it to them (maybe Snape?), before Sirius went to his 
own Order execution? 

Talisman

Saying:

I have always held that the Prank is just a BS tale told for Harry's 
benefit, and that, if it ever happened at all, it was merely evidence 
of the emnity between Sirius and Snape, not the cause of it.

Rowling has also told us that we will learn the *real* reason for 
this bad blood, in Book 7.

I rather think Sirius will come off the worse, and Snape the better, 
when the last shoe falls.

There is always a *karmic* aspect to the casualties piling up around 
DD's plan. 



  


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