[HPFGU-Feedback] ADMIN: We'd Like to Pick Your Brains About TBAY

[Shaun Hately]

On 2 Dec 2003 at 14:21, abigailnus wrote:

> Dear Everybody,
>  
> One of the reasons that we decided to establish -Feedback was to
> allow us to find out about the group's needs and opinions, and
> occasionally we'd like to ask for your thoughts about various subjects.
> This is one of those times. Most of you have probably seen the TBAY
> prefix attached to some posts on the main list. TBAY is a posting
> format that has existed for about a year and a half, and it has a great
> many fans among the older list members. We'd like to see newer
> members get involved with the form, but we realize that the learning
> curve for TBAY can be a little steep. To this end, members of the list
> admin have been putting together a TBAY primer, which will answer
> new members' questions about the format.
>  
> Trouble is, we're not entirely certain what those questions are.
>  
> We can guess some of them, and no doubt we can thing of a few that
> a person with no familiarity with TBAY might never think to ask, but
> there are surely questions that we would never consider. Which is why
> it's great that we have you to do our work for us. :-)
>  
> So, if you could take the time to answer these questions, and maybe add
> a few of your own, we'd really appreciate it, and we hope that in turn the
> list will as well.
>  
> 1. We'd like to know how you perceive TBAY. How would you describe
> TBAY messages? What do you feel is the most important aspect of a TBAY
> message? What does the term 'TBAY theory' mean to you? What, if any, is
> the difference between a TBAY theory and a regular HPfGU theory? 

Please realise that nothing I am saying here should be interpreted as a 
suggestion TBAY shouldn't be on the list. I fully understand on a list with over 
10,000 members there will be posts I don't like, and I don't expect people to stop 
posting - however, I do wonder if a separate list for TBAY might be a good idea.

But basically I personally perceive TBAY as a waste of time and potentially quite 
divisive in terms of the list membership. My personal view is that TBAY post take 
on average at least twice as long to make its basic point as a non-TBAY post 
does *on average*.

On a high traffic list like HPFGU, I think that winds up impacting quite significantly 
on those who just want to get to the core of the information quickly.

I feel quite uncomfortable with the idea of posting a non TBAY reply to a TBAY 
post - but it seems to me that TBAY posters have little problem with the idea of 
taking a thread that is being discussed in a straightforward fashion and TBAYing 
it. I'm not saying there should be a problem with that - but I think it can risk 
'forking' the list and diminishing discussion.

Because as soon as somebody writes a TBAY post in a thread, I think the 
audience for that thread changes substantially.

Some posters who were participating in the thread will have no interest in reading 
TBAY posts - so they will abandon that part of the thread.

Whereas TBAY fans (at least some of them) seem to me to deliberately seek out 
TBAY posts - and are then likely to enter the thread.

I don't think it's particularly positive for the list for threads to be split in that way, 
and my perception is that it does happen (not universally - some people obviously 
like both types of thread).

Thinking about this, I really do think TBAY should have a list of its own. At the 
moment TBAY is basically handled by a prefix - well, frankly we could have a 
MOVIE prefix, we could have an OT: prefix - there's no reason they have to 
separate lists. But that approach has not been taken. Instead they've set up 
sublists. I think the fact that TBAY is allowed on the list under a prefix and 
MOVIES and OT are on separate lists, privileges TBAY posts.

I am *not* saying no element of TBAY belongs on the list - I think using the 
shorthand acronyms for particular theories is a good idea and I see plenty of 
posts where those are referenced without the rest of the post being particularly 
TBAY. But it's my personal view that TBAY posts which involve a lot of roleplaying 
and in jokes and references to old in jokes... well, I think they belong on their own 
list. 

If MOVIES was handled by a prefix. Or OT was handled by a prefix - then it'd be 
different. But I personally feel TBAY posts are every bit as disruptive to the main 
flow of the list as either MOVIE posts or OT posts.

It's not a huge deal for me - I'm not obsessively anti-TBAY - but seeing the topic 
has been raised, that's my two knuts.
  
> 2. Do you read TBAY messages? Have you ever posted a TBAY message? If
> you have, what prompted you to do so? Have you ever wanted to respond
> to a TBAY thread but chose not to because of the format? What about the
> TBAY format made you reluctant to post?

I read them quite often. I've never posted one because frankly I can't see much 
point. But, yes, I have wanted to respond to TBAY threads and chosen not to 
because of the format.

What about it made me do that? Basically I didn't want to interfere with the 
TBAYers fun. My post would not have been in a TBAY format and posting a non-
TBAY message into a TBAY thread seems to me to be rather... impolite, because 
it's disrupting the considerable work the TBAY people are putting into their 
threads.
  
> 3. How accessible do you find the TBAY format? Do you find discussions
> of older theories (such as MAGIC DISHWASHER) on TBAY more or less
> accessible then discussions of older theories in regular posts (such as
> Evil!Lupin)? Do Hypothetic Alley (home of several major TBAY theories)
> and Fantastic Posts help to make TBAY posts more accessible? What can
> veteran TBAY-ers do to make newbies feel more welcome?

Basically I think there needs to be a complete and accessible reference page 
which outlines everything

I find TBAY discusssions generally to be *FAR LESS* accessible than non TBAY 
discussions - mainly because it's often very hard to work out what is an in-joke 
and what is intended as part of the actual theory. If that was more clearly 
delineated, the problem might not be as bad.
  
> 4. What do you find confusing about TBAY? What would you like to know
> before posting? What would make you more likely to post in a TBAY style?

A separate TBAY list might make me more likely to post using a TBAY style. It's 
about the only thing that would. Doing it on the main list just doesn't seem right to 
me, personally - because I want that list to be accessible to as many people as 
possible, and I think TBAY just adds confusion there unless people know all the 
back history.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at ... | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia