Sloppy people and Liars (help!)

[erinellii]

Erin:
As someone who has a few things in common with Shane (not the bad 
hygiene, but some messiness, being a night-owl, and some occasional 
lying) I thought I'd respond to this.  



"phoenix_suzaku18" :
Anyway, to the problems... Shane's room is an 
> experiment in SLOTH. Cigatrette packs and Coke cans litter every 
> surface, including the bed. Since moving in, he has not changed his 
> sheets. 

I'm assuming that niether you or your sister has to share a room with 
him in this answer.  So why is this YOUR problem?  Just don't go in 
there.  You are never going to be able to fix this kid' messiness.  
Try, as much as is possible, not to get involved in it.  Don't look 
at the room.  Don't smell the sheets (or whatever else you've doing 
to determine their unwashed status)  Just put it out of your mind as 
much as you your neat-freak tendancies will let you.  

Uh-oh, I just realized I'm sounding hostile. I swear I don't mean to 
be hostile to you, it's just that I am finding myself definitely 
identifying with Shane here.  Sorry.

"phoenix_suzaku18" :
He showers once every 3 days, despite being a fry cook. I 
> pick up litter around the house after him and his sister; banana 
> peels, used tissues, cigarette butts (on the floor! we have ash 
> trays!!), you name it. 

All, right, I can see where this should bother you.  Here's what my 
mom used to do sometimes.  When you find his trash (or his sister's) 
lying around, DON'T throw it in the garbage.  Instead, toss it into 
thier rooms.  They will get the message.  I don't know what his 
sister's personality is, but from what you've told me of Shane, he 
probably won't say anything about it to you, and this will alleviate 
the problem, though not stop it entirely.
  
If either of them confront you about it, don't let yourself be drawn 
into an argument.  Be deliberately vague.  Say "Oh, I thought those 
were yours," or (if it's true) "I had someone coming over and was 
just cleaning up a bit"   Say this in a nice voice, not 
sarcastically, but make it clear by your actions that you will no 
longer be putting their trash in the garbage for them.
  
You haven't said anything about their parental situation, or how they 
ended up living with their dad instead of mom.  Cleaning may remind 
them of her, and if there is resentment there, that may be one reason 
it's not getting done.  Also, their father has been letting them get 
away with it for I-don't-know-how-long.  It was their house before 
you moved in, and I'm sure it seemed strange to them to have someone 
come in and care about how clean it was at first.  Of, course I 
realize it is also hard on you to have to move into this (from your 
POV) hellhole garbage dump.

"phoenix_suzaku18" :
Also, I've caught him lying several times. 
> Examples: Just 5 days ago my mom had purchased a carton of Tom's 
> favorite cookies for him, and hid them in our pantry. They had yet 
to be opened. Yesterday, I found the carton w/only 4 cookies (out of 
33) left next to the computer where he spends each night. I regularly 
> bake cookies- a variety too- and Shane had plenty of food options. 
> Last night as I was baking more, Shane inquired "what kind are 
> those?". I told him and said, "You could have one if you like". He 
> replied "Thanks, but it better be just one, otherwise I'll carbo-
load and get 
fat."                                                        
> I said, "Like last night, eh?"             
Shane, "Yeah, I ate like 
> half a box of cookies."     Me, "What do you mean? there were only 
4  left?"  denial denial denial GRRRRRRRRRR...etc...

Erin:
To anyone experienced in the art of truth-bending, it's pretty plain 
that there *was* no lie here.  Shane did not say "I ate exactly half 
the pack of cookies", what he said was "I ate *like* half a box..."
That "like" is a modifier.  It was his way of acknowledging that he 
had eaten way more than half, but he was too embarassed to say "Yeah, 
I ate a whole box".

And another issue:  Why was your mom "hiding" the cookies?  Because 
they were just for Tom?  If that was the case, why wait 5 days to 
give them to him?   Heck, Shane probably saw them three days ago, 
figured he'd wait to see if they belonged to anyone, waited 4 days, 
no one ate them, so he figured they were up for grabs.  Since they'd 
been in the back of his mind for 4 days, his longing for them had 
built up to the point where he gobbled like the entire package.  
(This too is me imposing my own thought processes on Shane, lol) 


> .....His dad, Tom, was missing his last 2 packs of cigarettes last 
> week. My sister and I do not smoke. Tom asked everyone where they 
had 
> gone. No one fessed up. My mom did know who, but for fear of 
> embarassing Shane did not say anything in front of everyone. The 
day before he had told my mom that he was out of cigarettes, and 
would have to pay his dad back, because he had taken 2 
packs.                                                               
> Why would someone lie like this? I have been raised to be very 
> honest, and can't comprehend why anyone would go out of their way 
to lie like that. 

Erin:
Well, you've touched on the heart of the problem there in your 
question.  You said "I have been raised to be very honest."  This 
being the case, it is always going to be very difficult for you to 
comprehend where Shane's coming from on this, as it's obvious that he 
has not had that advantage. 
  
To me, your scenerio brings back bad memories from my childhood.  If 
someone forgot to put up the hose after watering the garden, for 
example, my dad would call us all down to the living room, line us 
up, and demand to know who had done it.  If one of us was stupid 
enough to own up, that one would be subjected to a 30 minute lecture, 
and a week's worth of punishment chores. Whereas if no one said 
anything, we got a much shorter lecture, and my dad would grumble "No 
one's ever responsible for anything around here", before leaving us 
alone again.  Needless to say, this atmosphere was not conductive to 
truth-telling.

Also, that is not "going out of the way" to lie.  That is a simple 
avoidance lie.  From Shane's point of view, trouble has come to him, 
in the form of his dad's anger, and he was just keeping the peace; 
though admittedly to his own advantage.  Going out of one's way to 
tell a lie would be if he had come in and told a big huge whopper 
about subduing an escaped zoo tiger or something.

If you and your family want Shane not to lie to you, you have to not 
be confrontational, but not give him the opportunity to lie, either.  
For instance, if you know he's eaten all the cookies in a pack, don't 
say "Who ate all my cookies?" because that gives him the opportunity 
to say "I don't know".  Instead, say in a non-accusatory way, "Shane, 
I know you ate all the cookies, and I was looking forward to having 
some.  Could you not do that with this new batch I'm baking, please."


I do understand that these examples are not severe, 
> only severely annoying. Plus his lack of personal hygiene makes 
> everything bad about him seem 
> worse.                                                              
> Does anyone have any advice?
  
Just this:  Distance yourself.  You are getting too drawn in to these 
problems.  The severe world outlook clashes here will drive you nuts 
if you let them, and there's no way you can totally "fix" these 
people.  You are 20.  Presumably you will be leaving when you finish 
school, so put your energies more towards that.  If you're only going 
part-time to college, maybe you have time for a job?  If so, maybe 
you could move out even sooner if you can find some roommates to 
split an apartment or rented house with.

How did Shane used to get to work before you drove him?  Start making 
your excuses, and let him go back to the old way so you don't have to 
keep driving him.  Or offer to take him over to the DMV to take his 
driving test, if there is any possibility of him getting a car.  If 
he makes a reasonable amount of noise when he's up at night and it 
still bothers you, get some earplugs.  I used to use them with my 
roommate in college, and you can still hear your alarm fine, if it's 
on the table right beside your bed.  Or tell him some people have to 
sleep and to shut the heck up if he's too loud.  This is one time 
it's ok to scream at him.

As for the hygiene thing... you know, its starting to sound to me 
like he has a lot of the symptoms of depression.  Has he ever been 
screened?  Is he on any meds?

Good luck dealing, and I hope I've helped you a little.  Feel free to 
email me anytime.

Erin



OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "phoenix_suzaku18" <phoenix_suzaku18 at y...> 
wrote:
> I currently live at home with my mother and younger sister. Last 
July we moved in with my mom's boyfriend, Tom, and his two children.
> I am 20, and going part-time to college. My sis is 19, and working. 
> Tom's children are Shane 18, and Andrea 15. I have huge problems 
> dealing with their behavior. Shane says up all night. His waking 
> hours are between 4:30pm-8:30am. Which is fine for him, because he 
> works 4 days a week from 5 until 11pm. He has not graduated from 
high school, nor does he have a drivers license. My sister or I end 
up driving him to work.