Sloppy people and Liars (help!)

[erinellii]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "phoenix_suzaku18" 
<phoenix_suzaku18 at y...> wrote:
>  First of all, thank you for the thoughtful responses thus far. 
<snip> I want to say what a huge relief it was to get those thoughts 
off of my chest. 

Erin:
I'm pretty sure it's been good for me to respond as well.  It let me 
say some stuff about myself that I've understood for a long time, 
just never had anyone to articulate it to before.


"phoenix_suzaku18":
> Some reponses to Erin, :
 But nearly all the cookies? They were hidden because Shane's been 
known to eat entire *items* at one go. 1/2 gallon of  icecream, 3 
leftover pork chops, the Jell-o I made early in the day and was 
saving for dinner. I guess you could say that it was *bound* to 
happen, and that I should've expected no less. But it was the last  
straw in my mind. But I just wish that Shane could understand that 
there are 6 people living here, and the food is purchased for all 6.  
Would leaving one serving of ice cream left be too much to ask? I 
wish I had more patience, and he more consideration. 

Erin:  
If wishes were horses.... but don't be fooled.  He *understands* 
perfectly well, he just doesn't care.  At least while he's eating.  
Afterwards he may feel embarrassed or sorry, and that's where the 
lying comes in.  But not embarassed or sorry enough to stop himself 
the next time!

"phoenix_suzaku18":
Should I leave notes on everything?

Erin:
Realistically?  If it's something you care about, like that Jell-o 
for dinner, yes.  It's the only way to be sure.  But for goodness 
sakes, don't put his name on the notes.  Act like they're for 
*everyone*.  


> Erin:   
> >big snip<  If one of us was stupid 
> > enough to own up, that one would be subjected to a 30 minute 
> >lecture, 
> > and a week's worth of punishment chores.  >snip again<
> 
> Me: That reminds me of my dad too. Only if we owned up to it the 
> lecture was much shorter. Maybe that made all the difference.

It wasn't the *length* so much as the number of times it happened and 
the utter stupidness of the things he would pick to go off about.  
And the attitude of enjoyment he had while he did it.  It wasn't 
like, "Well, I'm sorry you did this, but glad you owned up to it, so 
here's what you have to do to make it better."  No, more like "Come 
on, someone 'fess up 'cause I can hardly wait to PUNISH you!"

He really made it into a sort of him against us thing, into which 
even my mom figured.  I was thinking of that after I responded.  If 
Shane's former family dynamics corresponded to my own, when he 
mentioned to your mom about cigarettes, he was probably hoping that 
your mother would say to his father something like "Oh, by the way, 
Shane took a couple packs of your cigarettes, but he said he'll pay 
you back," before his dad even found out they were missing.  At least 
that's what my mother would have done for one of us.
  
This is a complicated game, and of course your Mom has no idea that 
she's playing it.  And no obligation to do so, of course.  Probably 
much better for the relationship if she doesn't, esp. since hopefully 
Shane will be out on his own in, at most, a couple of years.  
However, currently she is playing, because she didn't tell on Shane.  
So Shane will see her as a co-conspirator, and she'll probably get 
other confessions from him.  

He doesn't think of it as a game, I'm sure, and might not even be 
aware of it.  To him, it's just the way things are.  I didn't start 
to analyze my family until just before I left.

 
phoenix_suzaku18":
 But did that truth-avoidence follow you into 
> adulthood? Or in scenarios of trivial importance. 

Erin:
Actually, yes, it has.  Lying becomes a habit if you do it often 
enough.  I'm nearly 24 now, and if someone says something small 
like, "Did you take my pen?" in a harsh or accusatory tone, I'm still 
liable to say "no" before I think about it.  All my friends know I 
have a little "lying problem" and that I'm trying to overcome it.  
Like if they want me to ask so-and-so if she can go to the movies 
with our group tuesday night, and I say "Okay, I'll ask her at work 
tommorrow," and then I forget to do it, they'll ask me the next day 
if I've talked to her, and I'll be like "Yeah, I did,".  So then 
they'll say "Can she come?"  Embarassed silence.  "You didn't really 
ask her, did you?"  And I have to admit I forgot.  

But I'm doing better than I was two years ago.  Back then I would 
have glibly continued "Of course she can!" and then been frantically 
calling the person I was supposed to have asked as soon as I could 
get away from the first person.  Luckily I have very understanding 
friends.  

So avoidance lying really is my first instinct, even now.  But only 
in response to a direct question, when I believe someone is going to 
yell at me or get mad if I say "yes."   I liken it to flinching when 
you think someone is going to hit you.  A verbal flinch.  In response 
to an anticipated verbal hit.


"phoenix_suzaku18":
> I guess with the cookie thing, I just wanted him to say, "Oh, 
sorry,  I did get a bit carried away." 

Erin:
He did, in his own way.  You're for sure not going to get anything 
else out of him now.


"phoenix_suzaku18":
And if I was really lucky, "I should probably get more for my dad, 
since I know they were his favorite."  But I didn't hold my breath 
for it.

Erin: Ha ha!  No, no breath-holding, please!  I may be sympathetic to 
him, but I'm not blind to the fact that a lot of it IS just plain 
laziness and disregard for others.  Unless of course it turns out 
that he is horribly depressed with really screwed-up brain chemistry 
or something.



> Erin:
> > How did Shane used to get to work before you drove him?   
> 
> Me: He didn't have a job before we moved in. And where we live he 
has to have a permit 6 months before a test. He's had it for 2 months.

Erin:
Ah.  Well, at least he's on the way.  Ask if he's saving some money 
to pay for a car and insurance so he can buy one as soon as he can 
drive.  If he's not, he needs to start now.  

And has he any plans to take the GED?  He really should.  It is an 
extremely *easy* test, or so I've heard.  Most people pass it no 
problem, no need to study, even.  And it's something you *need*, 
really, if you're not gonna finish school.

 
Erin