"Nice and" expression question.

[Carol]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "kempermentor"
<kempermentor at ...> wrote:
>
> > Geoff:
> > This is one of those idiomatic [or perhaps idiotic? :-) ] bits of
> English which are so difficult to translate.
> > 
> > For example, if you describe Harry's wand as "nice and supple" this 
> > would probably need a different translation to a phrase such as
> "turn the control nice and gently" or "push down the accelerator pedal
> nice and steadily".
> 
> Kemper now:
> I'm just thinking off the top of my head (with a head cold)... how
about:
> 'nice and adjective' describes, essentially, the pure awesomeness of
> the object/feeling.  While,
> 'nice and adverb' describes how an action should be done with
> caution/care.
> 
> Kemper feeling nice and sweet about how nice and easy he thought about
> 'nice and x'... though he's prolly good and wrong
>
Carol responds:

Or how about "nice and [adjective serving as adverb]"? That would
include "nice and slow" meaning "nice and slowly" and "nice and easy,"
with "easy" pretending to be an adverb, as in "taking it nice and
easy," as opposed to "easu" as an adjective as in a puzzle that's
"nice and easy" (indistinguishable from "a nice, easy" puzzle).

Of course, to shift from "nice" for the moment, "easy" posing as an
adverb has a different meaning not difficult has a different meaning
from "easy" in "taking it easy" (relaxing). It's more like the
adjective "easy" in "easy ice" (a term that I had to define for a
British flight attendant on my flight to England in 1995--she'd never
heard of it) or "over easy" (another term possibly unfamiliar to
Brits, who, as I understand it, don't flip their fried eggs over).
"Easy" in that sense would mean lightly done on the second side,
possibly related to the little bit of ice in "easy ice." There's also
"easy does it," meaning doing something slowly and carefully, a little
bit at a time. (Sorry for the tangent, but I'm fascinated by English
idioms and thinking about "nice and easy" led to this train of thought.)

To return to "nice," "nice and easy" used as an adverb (as in "taking
it nice and easy" is one example of a "nice and" idiom that isn't the
same as its "nice, [adjective]" equivalent. But "nice and easy" used
as an adjective ("that cookie recipe was nice and easy") is, IMO, no
different from the form "nice, easy" ("a nice, easy cookie recipe").
So maybe Kemper is onto something, but it's not a complete explanation.

In the case of, say, a wand that's "nice and supple," we're dealing
with adjectives describing the noun "wand," and the meaning is
essentially the same as "a nice, supple wand."

Which returns us to the vexed question of what that vague, nearly
all-purpose adjective "nice" means. Sarcasm aside, "nice" means
vaguely pleasant or agreeable, but, as we've already established, the
agreeableness or pleasantness, whether in "nice and [adjective] or
"nice, [adjective] is relative and depends on the other adjective and
the situation. (Suppleness, for example, isn't always a desirable
quality. I don't want a "nice, supple" file cabinet--or a file cabinet
that's "nice and supple"--the same concept in a different position in
the sentence.)

So, how to translate the phrase? We're back to "agreeably supple,"
"pleasantly supple," possibly "nicely supple"(?) whether the phrase is
"nice, supple" or "nice and supple." "Nice" is posing as an adverb and
modifying the adjective either way. Ditto for "nice and warm/nice,
warm." (I might translate "nice and warm" as "warm and cozy,"
suggesting that the "nice" relates to comfort, not attractiveness, if
that works.)

"Nice and easy" or other phrases in which *both* terms are (or can be)
idiomatic or the second adjective is also posing as an adverb are
trickier.

Carol, looking forward to more posts on idioms