Abuse, Hermione and the triad, triumvirate.

[Susan McGee]

No: HPFGUIDX 2745

--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jinx" <jinxster at c...> wrote:
> 
> > That's not what I meant. I meant just what you said, that people 
respond
> > differently in the same situation. In the same sense that 
prisoners who
> are
> > tortured still claim they are "free" in their own minds because 
they have
> > not given that last bit of their own selfhood away, Harry retains 
his
> > perspective and personality, and thus is not a victim. He is the 
recipient
> > of abuse, but not a victim. Another person, in the same 
circumstances,
> might
> > have been squashed into the mold and self-image desired, and 
really been a
> > victim. It has nothing to do with blame, it's just that there are 
always
> two
> > parties, the abuser and the abused, and the actions of both 
affect the
> > outcome.
> 
> Oh, you're so right!  I was getting just a bit sick of Susan 
saying "Harry
> is an abused child", making him out to be some sort of damaged, 
passive
> victim.  He's not!  He doesn't see himself as abused, and nor 
should we.

<<<<Here's where we differ. You accuse me of bringing reality
into a fantasy world, and spoiling your fun. Yet, you insist
that Harry is not abused. He is absolutely abused. 

The fallacy here is that you assume that someone who is the victim
of child abuse is powerless, passive, weak, etc. Not so. All victims
of child abuse fight back in some way or another. Someone who is 
damaged is not necessarily weak. Psychological abuse of the sort
that Harry experiences would damage anyone. In fact, Harry has a lot 
of stuff about what has happened to him. He doesn't sleep well. He 
has flashbacks. He dreads going to the Dursleys.

Where does Harry say that he is not abused? Being abused is not a bad 
thing. The bad thing is what the abuser did.>>>>




> 
> Let me make it loud and clear - IT IS JUST A STORY.  THE DURSLEYS 
ARE
> FICTIONAL.  THEY ARE NOT REAL.  For 90% of the books, they aren't 
even
> mentioned.  If realism was intended, the books would flop within 
weeks of
> being published.  JKR is not writing on behalf of abuse victims, 
attempting
> to make the world aware of their plight, she is writing for the 
unabused
> majority, drawing on archetypal mythic themes to make it resonate 
(ie. the
> childhood misfit discovering their true nature and benefitting 
humanity as a
> result).  In fact, if the Dursleys were nice, there'd be too much 
temptation
> for Harry to run away from the dangerous wizard world and his 
destiny of
> fighting Voldemort, and try to be an ordinary Muggle again.  
However, the
> sheer awfulness of his Muggle life means that there's no going 
back.  Like
> in GoF where he seriously considers leaving Hogwarts and only stops 
because
> Hogwarts is the only place where he's ever been happy.  Also in PoA 
where he
> runs away from the Dursleys - he's not upset because he's leaving 
his family 
> home, but because he thinks he's been expelled from Hogwarts and 
will thus
> never be a proper wizard.

I of course don't know whether JKR was writing on behalf of anyone.
What is your source for this information.




> 
> Yes, Harry's treatment by the D's qualifies as abusive behaviour.  
And yes
> we do take abuse seriously.  I'm a trainee counsellor myself.  

<<<<Yet, earlier you say that Harry is not a victim????>>>>


However, we
> do Harry a great disservice if we see him as an abused child with 
no power
> to help h imself.  He's not powerless, he's a wizard and a good 
one. 

<<<But I never said that Harry had no power to help himself. I never 
said abused children had no power to help themselves. This is your
interpretation of what it means to be an abused child. People who 
are abused are very creative in resisting the abuse, try all kinds
of strategies to help themselves and protect themselves. You are 
assuming that some victims are just doormats, and lie around and do 
nothing. That's wrong. In this way, Harry is quite typical.>>>>



 He ha
> had traumas in his life, but living with the Dursleys is not one of 
them.

<<<<Oh, but of course it is. In Goblet of Fire, he is upset because 
the other champions will have family attend, but he has none he would 
want attending --- he can't believe the Dursleys would ever attend.. 
He tries hard not to be envious of Ron when he first goes
to the Burrow and reflects upon the difference between the Burrow and 
the Dursleys. He can't stand the thought of going back there for the 
holidays. When, for about half an hour, he believes that he will
have a new home with Sirius Black, he experiences real joy. In Goblet 
of Fire, he realizes that he wants a parental figure with whom to 
talk>>>


> It wasn't the Dursleys voices he heard when faced with Dementors, 
remember
> that.  The Dursleys are not his real parents and he has always 
known that,
> hence I don't think he's ever expected love from them.  And if he 
doesn't
> expect love from them, then he's not going to be as severely 
traumatised
> when he doesn't get it.  They don't care about him, and he has 
never cared
> about them in the way that he did about his parents.  And if you 
don't care
> about someone, they have far less power over you than someone you 
have once
> deeply loved.  That, I think, is why real child abuse is so 
damaging, it is
> the ultimate betrayal of trust.  If you have never really had that 
trust, it
> is not so damaging.  Harry comes out of it all so well precisely 
because the
> Dursleys never let him down - he didn't expect anything from them.
> 
> Abuse is a real issue in the real world.  It does not appear to be 
an issue
> in the Harryverse.  I have enough of issues like abuse, drugs, rape,
> violence in the real world, I definitely do not want it intruding 
into one
> of my escape routes.  Leave your work at the door, please.

Well, I can't leave my work at the door, because like Dumbledore and 
Harry, I'm fighting injustice, cruelty and wrongdoing.
You know, I think that Harry being abused by the Dursley is part and 
parcel of the saga, it's an important part of who Harry is, it's just 
as important to discuss as whether Hermione and Harry will ever
become involved, etc.

If you don't like my posts, I would suggest you don't read them.

Susan
> 
> Rant over.
> 
> 
> Jinx