Snape and Lucius Malfoy

[catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk]

No: HPFGUIDX 17331

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., lea.macleod at g... wrote:
> 
>  "Dinah" <bludger_witch at y...> wrote: a good theory on the 
> Snape-Malfoy-relationship, so thanks for your thoughts. 
> 
> I´ll only comment on a few aspects for now.
> 
> > The following theory can only be reasonable if we assume that the 
> "one who
> > has left us forever" comment of Voldemort wasn't directed at the 
> absent
> > Snape. 
> 
> At who else?

I've thought about (and commented) on this before.  I don't think 
this comment was about Snape, but about Karkaroff.  I think that 
Karkaroff is the one who has left forever, because to gain his 
freedom from Azkaban he denounced Rook, a DE, and tried to betray 
others, who had already died or been captured.  Therefore he betrayed 
Voldemort and his followers.  This was widely known as it was 
discussed publically at his sentencing.  Furthermore, Barty Crouch as 
Moody tells Harry that Karkaroff has fled because he is afraid of the 
fact that Voldemort has once more gained strength, and that he 
betrayed too many people to be welcomed back into the fold.  He says 
(paraphrase) that Karkaroff won't get far, as Voldemort has ways of 
tracking down his enemies.  He expects Voldemort to kill Karkarof - 
note also the "enemy" which is the exact word used by Barty Crouch.

Therefore it stands to reason that Snape is the one Voldemort thinks 
is too cowardly to return.  I still believe that Snape did return to 
Voldemort that night, at the request of Dumbledore, to begin spying 
again.  Everything points towards this.  We know that Snape went 
somewhere that night.  Dumbledore wishes him luck, is apprehensive 
about what is going to happen, asks Snape if he is ready and 
prepared.  If he was asking Snape to do something in the future, he 
wouldn't speak quite in those terms.  I think Dumbledore and Snape 
are also counting on the fact that Voldemort would accept Snape back 
without doing him too much damage, because he would know that Snape 
would be expected to be at Hogwarts, and now that Barty Crouch can no 
longer be used, it would be too useful to have Snape there, 
supposedly spying for him, to pass up on.  Therefore it seems likely 
that Snape has returned, is spying for Dumbledore, yet Voldemort 
expects Snape to be spying for him.

> >Which raises the problem that Snape *was* at the DE meeting - 
> which
> > means he would have known that Lucius was there *and* saw 
everything 
> that
> > happened to Harry.
> 
> Ah, if he was, I´ll immediately renounce everything I´ve ever said 
in 
> defence of him. The very idea he was there gives me the shivers!!! 
> I´ve never even considered the possibility. Has anyone else?
> 
> > I mean, if Voldemort knows that Snape betrayed him, how can 
Malfoy 
> not know?

This, I don't understand.  I thought that Voldemort had gone through 
everyone who was there.  My theory only works if Snape turns up later 
and is one of the three missing who Voldemort refered to.  However, 
as regards Lucius Malfoy, I have always supposed that Snape was not 
told who all the other DEs were - afterall, he didn't know that 
Wormtail was one - he seems to be very much Voldemort's secret 
weapon.  Also, if he did know, doesn't it follow that Dumbledore 
would also have been told?

I don't think that Voldemort does know that Snape betrayed him (see 
above my first comments on Karkaroff's betrayal.  We know that 
Dumbledore vouched for Snape - do we know how widely known this was?  
Or was this supposedly part of Voldemort's plan?  To have Snape at 
Dumbledore's side - not knowing that Snape is working for him 
(Dumbledore?).  The possibilities are endless, but from canon, to me 
it just makes more sense that Snape is the coward and Karkaroff is 
the one who has left forever - otherwise what else could Snape have 
done that night?

Catherine