Cross-book Foreshadowing (WAS Snape and Harry's first meeting)

[caliburncy at yahoo.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 29084

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Cindy C." <cynthiaanncoe at h...> wrote:
> I hope I am understanding the discussion properly, but I thought we 
> had two more instances of cross-book second-time foreshadowing.  I 
> think we learn about Scabbers' missing toe in PS/SS, which comes up 
> again in PoA.  I also think that we are told repeatedly in PoA and 
> GoF that you can't apparate into or out of Hogwarts.  I'd also 
> suggest Sirius' motorbike coming up in PS/SS and PoA, but since I 
> can't figure out what that might be foreshadowing, I can hardly 
> nominate it as a case of cross-book second-time foreshadowing.
> 
> Would any of those qualify?

This is my fault; I apologize.  I should have clarified my terms for 
anyone that hasn't been here for previous discussion, or for people 
who were here then but would like a refresher.

Way back when (okay so it really wasn't that long ago), as Cindy will 
recall, I coined sub-categories for foreshadowing, one of which 
was "second-time foreshadowing".  That message is number 25357, if 
someone wants to look it up (and perhaps look up some of the 
responses to it as well--particularly my note on a relevant and big 
typo in the original).

For a brief recap of the only part that's important for the 
moment, "second-time foreshadowing" was basically a type of 
misdirection, where the reader would be presented with a small 
mystery of some sort and caused through whatever means to form a 
hasty assumption about the solution to that mystery.  By the end of 
that book, the hasty assumption would be prove to be false and upon 
subsequent readings (hence the (stupid) name, "second-time"), the 
reader would see that an alternate and correct interpretation was 
available for that mystery.  Basically, it's a "red herring", 
although I avoid that terminology, because it is inconsistently 
understood (like many terms exposed to the unjudicious use of the 
masses *g*) and emphasizes it as something other than foreshadowing, 
which it isn't; it's a subset.

If the above explanation made no sense, please refer back to my 
original explanation which was simpler and better and provided 
explained examples.

And now we have the term "cross-book", or what David called "multi-
book".  Same thing: I probably should have stuck with his terms to 
keep from being obscure, but I've been using the term "cross-book" 
for long enough I just couldn't help myself.  Anyway, all that refers 
to in this case is something that has relevance from one book to 
another.  In the case of application to second-time foreshadowing, it 
would mean the mystery and false hasty assumption was presented in 
one book, but not debunked until a later book.

So, the Whomping Willow has cross-book significance, because it is 
introduced in COS and not given any really meaningful explanation 
until POA.  But it's not second-time foreshadowing, so it doesn't 
count as an example of the composite of cross-book, (AND) second-time 
foreshadowing that David and I were looking for.

Conversely, the comment "He's at Hogwarts" from POA, is second-time 
foreshadowing, but it has "single-book" or "in-book" significance, 
because it bears no relevancy beyond POA itself.  It is brought up 
along with its false hasty assumption and debunked all in the same 
book.  So it doesn't fit what David and I are looking for either.

Now, on to Cindy's suggestions:

* Scabber's missing toe:

This is so close that I REALLY, REALLY want to say, yes, it is a 
piece of cross-book, second-time foreshadowing.  Certainly we read it 
with a new understanding upon re-reading PS/SS after POA, and 
certainly it counts as foreshadowing in some respect.  But I can't be 
sure and say that it fits "second-time" specifically, because no 
explanation is ever implied that I can recall about what happened to 
his toe.  So either I need to adjust my definition of second-time 
foreshadowing so that it can include things like this, or I need to 
add a fourth category to my list of foreshadowing types.  I'm not 
sure yet.  It's pretty much functionally identical to second-time 
foreshadowing so that makes me not want to give it its own category, 
but just expand the exisiting one.  Or perhaps it doesn't really need 
an expanded definition to fit, because the implication *is* there in 
PS/SS that the mention of his missing toe was probably done as 
characterization to establish Scabber's poor condition.  You'll 
probably be surprised to hear that I've actually been thinking about 
this for a while now; I'm glad you mentioned it.

* Repetition of "You can't apparate into (out of) Hogwarts!"

While this may in the future prove to have cross-book significance, 
it currently does not.  The fact that something appears in more than 
one book does not make it relevant outside of that book.  For, 
example, the repetition of character trait descriptions.  
Specifically, the point here is that every time this comment is 
brought up it really does have in-book significance.  (I have a 
feeling that that last sentence didn't make sense at all.  Wow, I'm 
really not doing well on coherency today, am I?)

Beyond that, it certainly doesn't fit the definition of second-time 
foreshadowing.  I assume you were presenting this as a possible 
example of what might turn out to be second-time foreshadowing for 
the future?  If so, then that would only work if the statement proved 
false, but we have no real reason to believe that the in-book 
explanation is not sufficient, so I find this doubtful.

* Sirius' motorbike

Again, this might have cross-book significance in a first-time 
foreshadowing sense (it raises the story question of "Who is Sirius 
Black?" which is not answered until POA).  But that's *first-time* 
foreshadowing not second-time, and I doubt that this will prove to be 
second-time foreshadowing for any future event.  For anyone who 
doesn't know my definition of first-time foreshadowing, it's in that 
original message I mentioned.

-----

This is such an atrocious "clarification" <scoff> that I think I am 
going to quit while I am behind.  Sorry about the mess.

-Luke