LOLLIPOPS, Timeline, WL3 (Why Let Lily live?)

[cindysphynx]

No: HPFGUIDX 34866

Judy questioned:

> But, before we go any further on this timeline discusison, let me 
> point out that, as far as I can recall, we actually have no info on 
> how long Snape spied for Dumbledore.  

Oh, we have almost no clue in canon at all, that's true.  Dumbledore 
says "before."  My gut says that the word "before" is more than weeks 
and more than a few months.  Really, if Snape if going to do enough 
spying to do any good, you'd think he would be doing it for more than 
a little while.  I also like a longer time period because a longer 
time period = greater risk to Snape, which makes Snape even more 
brave, which ought to appeal to the Snapefans.

Judy again:

> Well, I certainly think Snape turned to Dumbledore's side because 
of 
> some altruistic reason, otherwise why would Dumbledore trust him?  

::ambushambushambush::

Seriously, I am devastated that there aren't more believers in the 
idea that Dumbledore didn't just believe Snape's conversion was true 
because Snape said it was.  It doesn't matter *what* Snape gives as 
his reason, Dumbledore *has* to have some objective evidence that 
Snape isn't a double agent and isn't lying.  

So a challenge:  If Dumbledore doesn't insist on something like the 
ambush, what is Dumbledore thinking?  Why does he just take Snape's 
word?  Give me something to go on here, people, anything.  Did 
Dumbledore use Veritaserum on Snape?  

Judy again: 

<snip "Eeeww" theory that Voldemort spares Lily to hand her over to 
Snape, who can use a lifetime of illegal curses and potions to have 
his way with her>

Oh, man.  Creative and logical though it is, this new "Eeww" theory 
isn't nudging me in the right direction at all. Forget about Snape 
having Lily's picture all over the dungeon walls.  That's small 
potatoes.  Now, Snape is so pathetic, disturbed and deranged that he 
wants Lily even if he can only have her through the Imperius Curse 
and a cauldron full of love potion?  Poor Snape.  Aren't there any 
decent women in the wizarding world who find sallow skin and greasy 
hair to be really hot?  :-)

Judy again:

> This theory, has some advantages, even if it is too ewww to be 
trewww 
> [great name, Tabouli!]  It gives a reason for Voldy to try to spare 
> Lily's life.  (Of course, he doesn't try all that hard, but why 
offer 
> her a chance to live at all?  Won't she dedicate her life to 
stopping 
> him, if he kills her family and leaves her memory intact?)  


In this entertaining showdown of ever-escalating theories, I suppose 
I have to ramp up Prince/Mercy even to stay in the same stadium.  I 
must admit that my enthusiasm has begun to flag, however, because 
Prince/Mercy appears to have no followers at all, and even George 
seems to be brazenly flirting with the LOLLIPOPS crew, right under my 
nose.  No SHIP for me; I have a small stall on the dock selling 
overpriced trinkets.  

Well, let's see what we can do here.  Judy raises a great question:  
Why did Voldemort attempt to spare Lily?  

It was all Peter's fault, you see.  Peter-The-Talentless was spying 
for Voldemort, catching snatches of conversations with Dumbledore's 
team.  One thing he hears is that Lily, talented charm-caster that 
she is, might have provided some ill-defined trap or protection for  
Harry. Peter doesn't know the details, but he gets the idea that 
killing Lily will make things worse.  He tells Voldemort this ("I 
think, My Lord, that you ought to go straight for the toddler and 
leave Lily alone, just to play it safe.").  When Voldemort attacks 
the Potters, he tells Lily to step aside because he's unsure what 
kind of trap he's walking into.  She doesn't step aside and continues 
shielding Harry, so he blasts her anyway, partly because he figures 
there is no protection and partly because she defied him, and he just 
hates that.  The rest is history.  

Where's the canon, where's the canon?  Uh, uh, Peter has been in 
hiding, according to Sirius, because Voldemort's old supporters think 
he double-crossed Voldemort.  "Voldemort went to the Potters' on your 
information."  I submit that the "information" was more than where 
the Potters were, but also the nature of the protection surrounding 
Harry.  Peter didn't provide enough of a warning about the 
consequences of killing Lily, and that's why Voldemort wound up as a 
slimy baby.

Judy again (offering a rational explanation refuting my overblown 
scenario that Snape is a pitiful Hollywood stalker):

>If fact, I imagine him as 
> showing no outward signs of his unrequited love at all, throwing 
> himself into his work.  

Yes, but. . . if Snape shows no outward signs of his unrequited love, 
then how does Voldemort (or anyone else like Peter) ever learn about 
it?

Cindy (who thinks she has utterly failed in her mission to establish 
Snape's backstory, who is unfurling her white flag, and who hopes to 
talk Elkins into posting her "Up With Avery" essay)