Some more thoughts about Lily, Remus, Sirius

[Katze]

No: HPFGUIDX 33831

pigwidgeonthirtyseven wrote:
>
>>3) There is even more incertainty about Lily's house, it is not less possible that she was a Gryffindor than a Slytherin etc. Anyway, unless we doubt what JKR said about the Marauders' and Snape's age, which we don't have any reason to do, and if the assumption of Harry' first year at Hogwarts being 1991 is correct, Lily and James necessarily had to get together while still at school. (I know we have been through this already, but it's better to make clear which point I'm departing from)<<

First to clarify...

Lily was in Gryffindor. Rowling says this in on of her Scholastic
interviews, and it's referenced in the Lexicon. 

pigwidgeonthirtyseven wrote:
>
>> OK, so according to these assumptions, we have four young men none of whom is in a stable realationship, there might be the occasional flirt but nothing serious, and then there comes LILY. Lily who takes up a lot of James's time, who wants to see him without his friends being around, making smooching noises and comments like "Get a room" when they kiss, Lily who doesn't appreciate their "boys' talk"... Interesting to think of the reactions of the other 3, isn't it? At first, maybe they dismiss her as a mere flirt among many others. Then things become obviously more serious and Sirius, Peter and Remus start getting worried. Perhaps there's some teasing ("Hey, prongs, we'll call you Bambi from now on, you've gone all soft!"), and when teasing doesn't have any effect, there's some talking reason into James ("James, for God's sake, we're only 16 years old, this is not the time to form a lasting relationship, it's the time for having fun! Give it a try and get out of Lily's clutches!").
> This doesn't work either and all of a sudden, James finds himself in a big dilemma: Either he gives in to his friends and loosens the ties with Lily a bit, or he has to tell them once and for all that his relationship with Lily is now on top of his priority list.<<

then Alexander responded:
>   IMHO it's strange that you demonstrate such prejudice to
> Lily. There could easily be nothing of that. The scenario
> you paint is only possible if it's more important for Lily
> to "own" James than anything else.
>   But are your assumptions based on *anything*? Lily in your
> description looks like a woman who doesn't know what a
> friendship is. But even more, James looks like he doesn't
> understand what is happening and is simply led away from his
> friends by "that woman".
>   Unlikely scenario. Unless there was indeed a romantic
> interest involved from other members of their gang, I would
> say that it's more likely for Lily to be accepted within
> their gang as fifth member.

I have to admit that Susanna's analysis took me by surprise, and I'm in
complete agreement with Alexander because of my experience groping up.
Perhaps our own experience clouds our view of Lily (whom we really know
nothing about)? When I was growing up, I wasn't considered "that woman".
I was fully accepted into my bf's circle at the time, along with various
other girls who came through. The guys didn't seem to have much of a
problem, and were quite respectful for each other when a couple wanted
to have a private night out. It's possible that my group of
highschool/boyfriend friends had their guy talk, but if you peeked in,
you'd find that the girl they picked as girlfriends had similar
interests...car racing, watching football, and the occasional
porta-potty tipping. If the girls didn't enjoy that kind of stuff, the
couple just didn't join for that night. I guess I'm just taken aback by
Lily being painted at the fifth wheel and trying to boss James around
and tell him what he can and can't do with his friends. I just don't see
anything in the canon that reflects this type of personality in Lily.

My husband has a much closer groups of friends, and they are very much
the same way. They accepted me with open arms (I moved out here...so I
knew and didn't know anyone). So I find it unusual to pain Lily as the
bad person who tried to steal James away. 

My impression is that Lily and James were both liked at Hogwarts, and
Sirius and Remus (not sure about Peter...cause he just follows) accepted
her as another friend. 

pigwidgeonthirtyseven wrote:
>
>>Anyway, isn't it at least a little strange that neither Sirius nor Remus ever talk about her to Harry? Certainly, Sirius is Harry's godfather and was Best Man at the wedding, but then we don't know whose choice that was or whether Lily was happy with it or not.<<

First...it's the groom's choice of who his best man will be (at least in
the US). And it is the bride's choice of who will be her maid/matron of
honor (how do we know that James didn't like Lily's choice?).

Second...Remus *never* mentioned James to Harry until Harry mentioned
him first, and then Remus still doesn't give a whole lot of detail. No
Remus, didn't acknowledge Lily, when he said "You heard James?" But his
lack of talking about Lily might be because HArry didn't ask. Harry only
asked "You know my father?" It's quite possible that Remus was *not*
close to Lily, but that doesn't mean he wanted to cast her out because
she was "that woman".

Third...We need to either expand the analysis of S & R's lack of
speaking about Lily to include James in that as well, or not use that
analysis at all. Neither of them speak about Lily *or* James, so I don't
think we can use this against Lily. They also only seem to speak bout
James when asked...no questions have been asked about Lily, which seems
to be the reason they don't speak about her.

-Katze