YES! The Great Alchemist Debate Solved (sort of)

[smokyant41]

No: HPFGUIDX 41012

Hello, everyone (I'm terribly new, by the way.)

Just thought I'd introduce myself by way of replying to this quite 
interesting thread. Alchemy is not, admittedly, my specialty, but I'm 
intrigued by the history of it, so here we go...


> Amanda Geist wrote:
> 
> > A couple points on this thread:
> > 
> > 1. Not every prominent/historical witch or wizard necessarily 
made it onto a card. It's probably up to the makers of Chocolate 
Frogs, and the ones *they* think are prominent. Maybe they personally 
never really heard of Flamel.

Given the extent of Flamel's fame in Muggle alchemical and scientific 
history, I think this is unlikely. The Philosopher's Stone and the 
legends surrounding it significantly predate Flamel, and his 
discovery of how to make it was one of the greatest achievements of 
14th-century alchemy (I'm using 'discovery' and 'achievements' 
advisedly). Flamel himself was a prominent social figure in Paris, an 
ex-scribe and a very rich man who set up charity trusts and endowed a 
large number of public works. Flamel is at least as well-known as 
Paracelsus, Ptolemy, and Albertus Magnus, and probably more so. 
Furthermore, his works survive in manuscript to this day, and much is 
known about him, even amongst us Muggles.

Additionally, he *does* get a mention on Dumbledore's card, 
indicating that the makers of Chocolate Frogs know of him, and 
believe him significant enough to mention him by name (instead of 
just saying that Dumbledore is famed for his work in alchemy, for 
example.) Furthermore, maybe Flamel is on a card, but it's just a 
very rare one, sort of like a limited-edition kind of thing.

Katze <jdumas at k...> wrote:

> I find it hard to believe that a wizard who has worked with 
Dumbledore in Alchemy would not be known in the wizarding world. 
Unless of course he wasn't accomplished at all, which wouldn't 
explain why he went down in the muggle History books.

You're right, he *does* appear in several wizarding books, as well as 
Muggle ones, although it takes Hermione and co. some time to find 
him; Hermione finds his name in the book she checked out for 'light 
reading' over the Christmas holidays, and Ron says that it's no 
wonder they couldn't find Flamel in 'Recent Developments in 
Wizardry', because at 665 years old, he's not really recent. In 
SS/PS, it is said:

'There have been many reports of the Sorceror's Stone over the 
centuries, but the only known Stone currently in existence belongs to 
Mr. Nicolas Flamel, the *noted* alchemist and opera lover.' (my 
emphasis)

So, he is quite well-known in the world of wizard academia, anyway.

My guess would be that Flamel's bizarre invisibility in SS/PS results 
from the fact that the story is narrated from the point of view of a 
boy who has spent 10 of his 11 years knowing absolutely nothing about 
magic, and who hangs out with a girl who (for all her intelligence) 
has spent much of her life the same way and a boy who, let's face it, 
isn't exactly the most studious of individuals. 

It's wholly possible, as I said before, that a Flamel card exists, 
but Ron doesn't have it, or he has it, but doesn't remember he has 
it. When he says in SS/PS that he has 'about five hundred', that 
number is understood to include duplicates (he has six of Morgana, 
for example.) Additionally, his lack of an Agrippa or Ptolemy card 
isn't necessarily a statement that they are the *only* two he lacks --
 maybe they're particularly rare, or are ones he really wants. Or 
maybe he *does* have a Flamel card, but it's lost amongst the 500, 
and as SS/PS says, he's more interested in eating the Frogs than 
reading the cards.

Just some totally unverifiable alternatives to toss out ^_^. Given 
Flamel's fame in the Muggle world, and what he's famous for -- and 
the fact that he does appear in a history book -- he's pretty well-
known amongst wizards (or just wizard academics!) as well. 

HF.