[HPforGrownups] Re: Diary plotting

[N Fry]

No: HPFGUIDX 39852

me:
>Marina said:
>I still think the events of CoS were planned by Diary!Voldemort, not
>Vapor!Voldemort,
>
>I have to agree with Marina. I unfortunately don't have my books here with 
>me, so I can't quote specific passages. If I correctly remember Riddle's 
>explanation to Harry about how he used Ginny, he says that he was *very* 
>interested in everything she had to say about Harry, especially dealing 
>with Voldemort's downfall. I had always assumed that was because Diary!V 
>had no knowledge of this. IIRC, Dumbledore speculates that 16 yr old Tom 
>must have captured an impression (shadow? memory? What would you call that 
>thing?) of himself in the diary. I took this to mean that Diary!V had all 
>the knowledge, memories, etc. of Tom *up to that point in time*, but that 
>he doesn't
>have any connection to Voldemort after he is stored in the diary.

Grey Wolf:
>That's one reason to think that the plan was *NOT* thought up by
>Diary!Voldemort, but by either Lucius himself or Vapor!Voldemort. The
>reason? Diary!V looks pretty much out of touch with the modern reality: 
>doesn't know his future self had been beaten until Ginny tells him, etc. It 
>looks like no-one had fed him any ink for quite a while. Thus, the plan 
>couldn't have originated in him.

Opps. Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't make myself too clear there. 
What I meant was that I agreed that Vapor!V didn't plan the events. I didn't 
think that they were Diary!V's plans either. That's why I pointed out that 
Diary!V had no prior knowledge of what had happened. I think the plan 
originated from Lucius. IIRC, in the graveyard scene of GoF, he claims that 
he had no idea that Vapor!V had survived, but if he had heard any news that 
his master was in need of assistance, he would have come running. Didn't 
someone recently suggest that this may have been an act for Harry's benefit? 
(If not, it may have been one of the old archived posts that I read...) I 
don't believe that. I think that Lucius either didn't know, or he didn't 
want to know. No use risking yourself and all you've accomplished for a 
weakened master who may not recover. He may have heard rumors, so the events 
in CoS could have been a sort of insurance plan for if Voldemort did even 
return to power. If the rumors did end up being true, he had proof that he 
had still been indirectly working for Voldemort. Even better, if he claimed 
that he thought that Voldemort was destroyed, doesn't that make him look 
like an especially good little DE? He still loyally works for a deceased 
master who can't reward him for his actions.

Marina wrote:
>I think Lucius believed that Draco was in no danger.  He wasn't there
>the first time the Chamber was opened, and didn't know the details of
>what had happened.  He didn't even know there was a basilisk involved.
>The legend says only that Salazar had left behind him an unspecified
>monster that will one day come out and clear all the Mudbloods out of
>Hogwarts.  The implication is that it will *only* harm Mudbloods,
>leaving Hogwarts to the Purebloods who deserve it such as Draco.

That's what I should have added to my original post! Actually, I had  
intended to explain that I thought Lucius was acting on his own (without 
orders from Vapor!V), but I got distracted and didn't realize that I had 
forgotten to add that little detail until after I had sent it.


Even though this has nothing to do with the various Voldie incarnations:
Elkins said:
>Honestly, it was not until I joined this list that it even occurred
>to me that apparating might be an unusually difficult skill.

Me too. I find that this list is making me consider *a lot* of things that 
never occurred to me when I first read the books. Between reading all of the 
new posts and trying to work my way through the archive, I've got plenty to 
think about! Kinda enjoyable, in a weird 
my-head-is-going-to-explode-from-all-of-this-new-info-in-such-a-short-time 
sort of way. <g>


~ Nik  (who is now even more paranoid about rereading her posts multiple 
times while hoping that her message completely reflects what she's trying to 
[unsuccessfully] say)

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com