Hagrid, the Betrayer? Don't think so... (WAS Re: The Betrayer?)

[aldrea279]

No: HPFGUIDX 40042

Joe Blackish:
<>I know some listies don't like to get hung up on metathinking 
and authorial intent, but really, I think the way Dumbledore 
passes out second chances like chocolate frogs pretty much 
screams "You need to trust people! Learn from the wise old 
wizard!"<>

Maybe I am completey misinterpreting you(sorry!), but are you saying 
that Dumbledore's bottomless pit of second chances rubs off on Hagrd, 
and that is why he is so very trusting? I can certainly agree with 
you there, if that is the case, because Hagrid looks up to Dumbledore 
as a father figure.


Joe again:
<>But on the other hand, Hagrid's screwed up time and time again. 
In fact, his drinking/foolish trusting/incompetence as a teacher/et 
cetera has caused a major problem in every single book. It 
seems to be a pretty major pattern.<>

Naama responds with:
<>In PoA, he didn't do anything wrong. I disagree with those who think
that Hagrid misjudged in his choice of beasts for the first lesson 
and put the blame squarely on Draco and his Dad. He was - *again* - 
framed. In GoF – I really don't see that he did anything wrong.<>

As I am way behind, I just read Joe's post about Hagrid and your 
reply. I was about to point out the exact same thing after seeing if 
someday else already had- glad I did, otherwise I would have sounded 
redundant. =P But I do agree entirely with what you said.

Well,(I admit, as he did that) Hagrid did mess up in PS/SS, but I 
don't recall him causing any other "major problems".  The only big 
mistake I can recall him making in the 4 years Harry has known him 
would be his loose lips after too many cups in the Leaky Cauldron 
that one day, and the minor mistake of over-estimating the second-
years and under-estimating the hippogriffs.

But Joe Blackish argued, as pointing out Hagrid's "serious problems":

<>PoA: The whole Buckbeak fiasco. He shouldn't have introduced 
such a dangerous creature in the first class. He should have 
noticed that Malfoy wasn't paying attention and should have been 
more in control of the situation. He has all the kids going up to 
play with a very dangerous creature at the same time.<>

*coughs* Not to get all LOONish on you, but Hagrid did not have all 
of the kids going up to dangerous creatures at -same- time.  Harry 
was the only one who trusted Hagrid enough to approach one of the 
Hippogriffs, and therefore the rest of the class tentively steps up 
and does what Hagrid tells them to do.  Excuse me, MOST of the rest 
of the class.  Draco loses no time in disobeying Hagrid at his very 
first teaching lesson by insulting the Hippogriff and causing the 
exact effect Hagrid -warned- them against: an attack. Also, they're 
being watched by a half-giant who would never let any of them be hurt 
if he could help it.  He even immediately pulls the hippogriff off 
Draco, whom he doesn't even like, if I recall correctly.  And once 
more, they're in a -wizarding- school.  I don't really see any of 
them in danger as being maimed for life as Madame Pomfrey can mend 
broken bones, burns, and cuts so that the person is good as new.

And I don't see Draco faking a hurt arm as being a "serious" 
or "major" problem.  It was an annoyance to everyone that liked 
Hagrid as a friend, and also resulted in Hermione b*tch slapping 
Draco when he gloated over the annoyance he caused- which I still 
laugh at every time I read. =P


Joe continued:
<>And then he's the worst teacher ever for the rest of the 
year. The children learn absolutely nothing by feeding 
flobberworms lettuce.<> He deserved to be canned.<>

That, also, (IMO, I suppose) is Draco's fault. Hagrid completely lost 
his confidence, he had wanted to make a fun class, so he tried 
something exciting for his frist lesson- when Draco screwed that up, 
he just went completely backwards.  Exciting was too dangerous, he 
should stick to boring and safeness.  He stopped putting the kids 
in "danger" when he went to flobberworms, and isn't that what you 
accused him of doing in his first lesson?

<>He deserved to be canned.<>

Are you saying that he was canned, or just that he should be?  
Because I don't recall him being canned. He is still their CoMC 
Teacher in GoF, in which he tries to hand in his resignation but 
Dumbledore, Harry, Ron, and Hermione wouldn't hear of it.  As for him 
deserving to be canned, that really is Dumbeldore's decision.  <grin>


Joe yet again:
<>GoF: He knows that Rita Skeeter isn't to be trusted, and he 
willingly speaks to her anyway (going to the Three Broomsticks 
together, I might add), and offers her information about himself 
and Harry that she exploits to everyone's detriment, all simply 
because she flatters him a little bit.<>

*ahem* I am currently re-reading GoF, so luckily I readily remember 
this.  *runs off and gets book*

(another LOONish point) Some pages after Rita turns up at Hagrid's 
Care of Magical Creatures lesson, we learn how his meeting in the 
Three Broomsticks went:

* "She din' seem very int'rested in magical creatures, ter tell yeh 
the truth," Hagrid said, when Harry, Ron, and Hermione asked him how 
his interview with Rita Skeeter had gone during the last Care of 
Magical Creatures lesson of the term.  <snip>

"She jus' wanted me ter talk about you, Harry," Hagrid continued in a 
low voice. "Well, I told her we'd been friends since I went ter fetch 
yeh from the Dursleys. 'Never had to tell him off in four years?' she 
said. 'Never played you up in lessons, has he?' I told her no, an' 
she didn' seem happy at all.  Yeh'd think she wanted me to say yeh 
were horrible, Harry." *

So you see, Hagrid's interview in the Three Broomsticks -didn't- 
cause any "serious problems" for Harry(In fact, one could argue that 
it only causes problems for Hagrid by making Rita Skeeter retaliate 
against him with her "Dumbledore's Giant Mistake" article). And 
Hagrid wasn't even able to provide the woman with anything she could 
exploit(and we know how good she is at that)! His honestly answerng 
how good a kid Harry was just caused Rita a little more work in 
finding the right person to ask for some dirt on Harry(which she 
does, in the form of Malfoy- NOT Hagrd)).


Joe:
<>I also think its 
totally inappropriate the way he gets drunk all the time, but many 
posts seem to take issue with the fact that he consumes alcohol 
in front of the children at all. Moderate consumption of alcohol is 
totally normal and healthy and shouldn't be frowned upon. 
Remember that Dumbledore himself has suggested imbibing a 
glass or two of sherry from time to time.<>

Alright, does it anywhere state that Hagrid is definately DRUNK?  Or 
does it not just talk about him drinking alot or 
perhaps "celebrating"(as in PoA)?  Because in alcohol consumption, 
your height and weight matter, alot.  And Hagrid, being as big as he 
is, could more than likely consume the ammount of alcohol it would 
take to get a grown man drunk and remain perectly fine. It may seem 
as though he's drinking alot, but it's not having the affect one 
would imagine on him. Also, I've never liked the thought that 
the "stranger"(Posessed!Quirrell) sat with Hagrid long enough to get 
him nice and shnockered.  As I pointed out about his size, that would 
take a while.  I find it more believable that Hagrid was drinking 
more than he thought out of his mug...

Although I'm certainly not denying that Hagrid would be wise to think 
about laying off the drinking just a tad. <g>  Just that he doesn't 
have to be blamed for being a drunk and a liability when he's 
anywhere near a mug of ale.


Joe:
<>Hagrid has repeatedly shown that he does not deserve to be 
trusted with anything important. He simply cannot be counted on 
to do anything right.<>

*stares*  Hagrid does do things right, you seem to forget..
 
He an be counted on to rescue a baby Harry from his parents 
collapsing house and bring him safely to Dumbledore.

He can be counted on yet again to retrieve Harry and bring him safely 
to Hogwarts. 

He can be counted on to safely bring the Proffessor's Stone back to 
Dumbledore.

He can be counted on by anyone who ever needs a friend(he's there for 
Hermione even when he's got Buckbeak to take care of, his 
groundkeeping duties to look after, and a CoMC class to prepare).

He can be counted on to fullfil the place of a Proffessor by teaching 
the CoMC Class, even though he is not a full-fledged Wizard.

And at the end of GoF, Dumbledore is obviously counting on Hagrid as 
being part of his Anti-Dark Forces team.

And if anyone can think of anymore, feel free to add them.  I see 
Hagrid as being someone you could most definately count on to try his 
very hardest at whatever task you give him.


Oh, and I also just wanted to say...

Naama quote:
<>In other words, it is not Hagrid's narrative role to do 
things that harm his friends. But it *is* his "job" to suffer under 
false allegations and prejudice, but still hold strong to his loyalty 
and essential goodness.<>

*claps* I agree with you entirely.

~Aldrea (I think Hagrid deserves an acronym supporting him. Even 
Snape has one[actually, I think there are several], for crying out 
loud! =P)