The Sorting of Neville Longbottom

[ssk7882]

No: HPFGUIDX 40122

Hana wrote:

> I agree with the fact that Neville doesn't really fit in 
> Hufflepuff, that he doesn't, in fact, seem to fit into ~any~ of the 
> houses.

Yes.  As I've argued before (Message #38398) I read the Hat's very 
long hesitation with Neville as representing a dilemma of "None of 
the Above."  Gryffindor was a best-fit.  That doesn't mean that it 
was necessarily a *good* fit.

Hana also most kindly provided us with the Gryffindor traits:

> The Gryffindor traits from PS/SS and GOF:

> brave at heart
> daring
> nerve
> chivalry
> bold
> (and intelligent since Godric made the Sorting Hat)

> He ~has~ shown courage in helping to fight Malfoy, Crabbe, and 
> Goyle in PS/SS, as well as when he stands up to the Trio so bravery 
> is there, deciding to fight might be considered daring (for him) 
> and show some nerve since he's not really the picture of fighting 
> strength. 

I would say that his actions in both of those cases definitely show 
daring.  They certainly show nerve.

They also reveal a great deal of cowardice -- or at the very least, a 
profound weakness of will.

Really, he's just doing what everybody else keeps telling him to do 
there, isn't he?  The rest of the Gryffindor boys nag and harrass him 
about how he should "stick up for himself," and Harry tells him that 
he's worth twelve of Malfoy.  So what does he do the *very next time* 
a situation like this comes up?

Why, he parrots Harry's words right back to Malfoy, of course.  And 
then he gets into an utterly uncharacteristic fist fight for no good 
reason at all, other than his desire to satisfy the expectations of 
his peers.

That's not courage.  That's caving to pressure.  It's nothing but the 
social equivalent of succumbing to the Imperius Curse.


Darrin wrote:

> The boy took on two boys twice his size. 

Yes.  It's interesting that, isn't it?  Why did he go for Crabbe and 
Goyle? Why not weedy little Draco Malfoy, against whom he might at 
least have stood a fighting chance?  Why the kids that he *knew* 
could land him straight in the hospital -- and not just one of them, 
but both of them at once?

Could it be that he was trying to make a *point?*


Darrin also wrote:

> The boy risked his friendship with Hermione, Ron and Harry -- and 
> as it turns out, his safety -- because it was best for the house.

And that's an interesting scene too.  He doesn't really risk his 
friendship with them at all.  Instead, he comes right out and 
*reminds* them that in doing what he is doing, he is specifically 
*obeying their orders.*  And then he all but dares them to attack him.

I begin to see a pattern emerging here.  Do you?  


Look, Neville may lack confidence, but he knows the score.  He may 
not be able to hold up against the Social Imperius, but by God he's 
not going to succumb to it without putting up *some* form of 
resistance.

And so he plays to lose.  

Neville plays to lose.  Playing to lose is the only avenue of 
resistance he has open to him, because he can't yet muster the 
confidence or the courage or the sheer strength of will to come right 
out and say: "No.  I WON'T."

I live in hopes that this might change.  But Neville's behavior in 
PS/SS is really pretty godawfully depressing, if you ask me.  It's 
the story of his failure to uphold the virtues of his House.  He 
fails, he fails miserably, and then everyone and his brother comes 
along and pats him on the back and *praises* him for his failure.

Just look at how he responds to Dumbledore's point award at the end 
of the book, will you?  He isn't happy.  He isn't smiling.  He 
is "white with shock."

Harry thinks it's because he's astonished and *pleased.*

Then, we know all about Harry's track record when it comes to 
interpreting other people, right?


Mind you, I do think that Neville is brave.  I think he's 
astonishingly brave. The kid's got plenty of raw courage.  
Unfortunately, it's just not the sort of courage that his culture 
values in the least, which means that he has to work at least five 
times as hard as your typical Joe Warrior Gryffindor type to manifest 
it.

And Neville still needs a lot of work with that whole "manifesting 
it" part.  He needs a *lot* of work with that.  He proved that in 
PS/SS.

Where Neville shows that he *is* capable of manifesting real courage, 
on the other hand, is when he he asks a girl to the Ball, gets 
rejected, and then goes right on to ask a different girl.  That's 
courage.  Admitting to losing his passwords is courage.  And of 
course, the fact that he has never once tried to use his parents' 
plight to leverage anyone into showing him the slightest bit of pity 
or mercy or plain old-fashioned slack is extremely courageous.

Most of all, though, Neville wears fuzzy slippers.  At the age of 
*thirteen.*  He wears them, and as far as we can tell, he wears them 
without shame.  *That* is the sort of thing that lets me know that he 
belongs in House Gryffindor.

His behavior in PS/SS, though?

<shakes head sadly>

Oh, no.  I don't think so.


Of course, the sad thing about all of this is that JKR seems to have 
not the slightest *idea* what she's talking about whenever she writes 
about Neville.  I therefore strongly suspect that she's going to send 
him off in a direction that will depress me just as profoundly as the 
end of PS/SS did.  (For my rant about where I would *like* to see 
Neville go in the canon, see Message #34856).


Darrin:

> -- Full disclosure: I came late to the HP books and I was able to 
> read all four for the first time right in a row. The scene where 
> Dumbledore gives Neville the winning 10 points is where I said: "I 
> see now what the hype was about."

Full disclosure myself?  The end of PS/SS absolutely turned my 
stomach, and Neville's plotline was a big reason for that (Marina can 
guess what the other one was, I'm guessing <g>).  I just have so 
little patience with that particular After School Special 
interpretation of averse-to-conflict child characters.  They really 
do bug me no end.  It was quite some time before I could even steel 
myself to pick up the second book, and the first volume remains to 
this day my very least favorite of the four.


-- Elkins