The Sorting of Neville Longbottom

[darrin_burnett]

No: HPFGUIDX 40135


> 
> Darrin wrote:
> 
> > The boy took on two boys twice his size. 

And Elkins wrote:

> 
> Yes.  It's interesting that, isn't it?  Why did he go for Crabbe 
and 
> Goyle? Why not weedy little Draco Malfoy, against whom he might at 
> least have stood a fighting chance?  Why the kids that he *knew* 
> could land him straight in the hospital -- and not just one of 
them, 
> but both of them at once?
> 
> Could it be that he was trying to make a *point?*
> 


Yeah, that he is courageous. By taking on Crabbe and Goyle, Neville 
let Ron get some great shots in on Malfoy. 

What would have happened if Ron and Neville both would have attacked 
Draco? Crabbe and Goyle would have turned them into meat pizza from 
behind. 


 
> Darrin also wrote:
> 
> > The boy risked his friendship with Hermione, Ron and Harry -- and 
> > as it turns out, his safety -- because it was best for the house.


And Elkins wrote:
 
> And that's an interesting scene too.  He doesn't really risk his 
> friendship with them at all.  Instead, he comes right out and 
> *reminds* them that in doing what he is doing, he is specifically 
> *obeying their orders.*  And then he all but dares them to attack 
him.


Wait, I forgot how Neville went from being the victim of Hermione's 
body-bind to somehow instigating all of this. It was Neville who in 
part cost Gryffindor 150 points and he was trying to make up for it 
in his own way.

The only pattern I'm seeing so far is of a puny, untalented kid who 
still tries to defend his friends -- fighting with Ron in a two-on-
three situation -- and his house -- trying to keep the Trio from 
sneaking around.


What you're saying is that Neville, consciously or unconsciously -- 
and your "know the score" comment would indicate CONSCIOUS behavior --
 has put himself in the way of two larger boys' fists and submitted 
to a body-bind from Hermione because it is the easy way out?

I don't buy it.  

> 
> Look, Neville may lack confidence, but he knows the score.  He may 
> not be able to hold up against the Social Imperius, but by God he's 
> not going to succumb to it without putting up *some* form of 
> resistance.
> 
> And so he plays to lose.  
> 
> Neville plays to lose.  Playing to lose is the only avenue of 
> resistance he has open to him, because he can't yet muster the 
> confidence or the courage or the sheer strength of will to come 
right 
> out and say: "No.  I WON'T."
> 

Standing up to Crabbe and Goyle allowed Ron to get some shots in and 
score a victory -- petty and juvenile, but a victory -- against 
Slytherin. 

Standing up to the Trio ended up giving Gryffindor the House Cup and 
I'd bet that's EXACTLY why Dumbledore gave it to him, to encourage 
the spark of courage. 



Elkins: 

> I live in hopes that this might change.  But Neville's behavior in 
> PS/SS is really pretty godawfully depressing, if you ask me.  It's 
> the story of his failure to uphold the virtues of his House.  He 
> fails, he fails miserably, and then everyone and his brother comes 
> along and pats him on the back and *praises* him for his failure.
> 
> Just look at how he responds to Dumbledore's point award at the end 
> of the book, will you?  He isn't happy.  He isn't smiling.  He 
> is "white with shock."
> 
> Harry thinks it's because he's astonished and *pleased.*
> 
> Then, we know all about Harry's track record when it comes to 
> interpreting other people, right?
> 

You fail to say what you think Neville's reaction means. 

He's shocked that he is being rewarded here. We're talking about a 
kid that doesn't get too many rewards for his behavior. He'd never 
won a point for Gryffindor, remember?

He's being rewarded for bravery, and as I said, Dumbledore could have 
awarded the points in any order he wanted. He could have just given 
Harry 70 points and been done with it. 

But he chose to give Neville 10 points. Had this been a one-shot book 
with no sequels, I might buy the "After School Special" routine, but 
since we are stretching out over a series here, I'd say he chose 
specifically to build up Neville's confidence. 

Oh, and I don't see where Harry thinks anything about Neville's 
reaction. I've got page 306 right in front of me and there is nothing 
about Harry's interpretation of Neville being white with shock. Are 
you talking about another of the four books? 



> Darrin:
> 
> > -- Full disclosure: I came late to the HP books and I was able to 
> > read all four for the first time right in a row. The scene where 
> > Dumbledore gives Neville the winning 10 points is where I 
said: "I 
> > see now what the hype was about."
> 
Elkins: 

> Full disclosure myself?  The end of PS/SS absolutely turned my 
> stomach, and Neville's plotline was a big reason for that (Marina 
can 
> guess what the other one was, I'm guessing <g>).  I just have so 
> little patience with that particular After School Special 
> interpretation of averse-to-conflict child characters.  They really 
> do bug me no end.  It was quite some time before I could even steel 
> myself to pick up the second book, and the first volume remains to 
> this day my very least favorite of the four.
> 


Well, obviously we have two different world views here. I fail to see 
exactly why it turned your stomach. The "after school special 
interpretation of averse-to-conflict child characters" tells me 
exactly nothing.

Perhaps I am a little too romantic and I enjoyed seeing the picked-on 
kid get a little victory in the end. I mean, we can argue about the 
canon and whether this foreshadows great things for Neville or tragic 
things for Neville. We can psychoanalyze the kid to the point where 
it becomes almost laughable.

But maybe JKR just set up a little happy ending for a supporting 
character, nothing more, nothing less. And in the other books, 
Neville's unlikely courage becomes a recurring theme. Perhaps it 
means nothing more than the little gag of having a new DADA teacher 
every year.

Darrin 

-- Nope, I don't believe that. In book 7, Neville gets a heroic 
scene. Bank on it. Be there or be square or be depressed - if you 
must.