Hermione and Ron (SHIP)

[naamagatus]

No: HPFGUIDX 38704

Penny said:
> 
> Nope. I think Percy gets pegged as the "ambitious one." But, 
> IMO, that overlooks the fact that *all* of the Weasley males are 
> arguably ambitious, except perhaps for Arthur. 

Barb responded:

But you're missing something here; when a Weasley really wants 
something, he grabs for it. 
<snip examples>

What does Ron do? Skives off his homework, makes up Divination 
charts, crosses his fingers and hopes for the best in Potions and 
begs Hermione to copy her History of Magic essays. If being Head 
Boy were really his ambition, he'd be working toward that, which he 
clearly is not. What DO we see him working hard at? Finding out 
about the Philosopher's Stone, finding out about the Chamber of 
Secrets, helping Harry prepare for the second and third tasks of the 
Tournament. Are any of these things likely to get him fame and 
glory? No. Yet this is what he concentrates on. Who wouldn't like 
fame and glory? Sure, it would be nice. But you make him sound 
like a Slytherin. He toils in relative obscurity for the greater 
good and gets no notice for it. 
<snip>
Wanting the RESULTS of the work is not the same thing at all. As I 
said, who wouldn't want to be rich? But when Ron says this it's 
rather pie-in-the-sky. It's a grass-is-always-greener attitude. 
Most people feel that way, regardless of how much ambition they 
>have.

Naama:

Yes!! Thanks Barb. I was struggling to formulate to myself the 
difference between ambition and Ron's longing for recognition and you 
got it bang on the head [if that's the right phrase?].

Penny argued with Pippin:

> Moving on to Pippin: 
> 
> <<<<< He's not miserable because Harry got chosen Tri-wizard 
Champion, remember, but because he thinks Harry didn't take him into 
his confidence about it.>>>>>>>
> 
> That's what Ron says. Hermione says that Ron's jealous of Harry's 
fame. I think Ron was angry that Harry got the opportunity to be a 
Tri-Wizard Champion even though he was 3 yrs too young. I don't 
think it's so much that Harry wasn't taking Ron into his 
confidence. At least that's not my spin on it. 

Barb replied:

I have to agree with Pippin here. It's also consistent with Ron's 
biggest pet peeve--lack of loyalty. He feels it was disloyal of 
Harry not confide in him about both his intent to enter the 
Tournament and the method he used to accomplish it. <snip>


I say:

Well, I have to agree with Penny here. Hermione says that Ron doesn't 
really think that Harry lied to him; that what he is really jealous. 
The reader is clearly meant to accept this as the true explanation. 
Ron was jealous – so bitter that he needed to manufacture a more 
acceptable cause on which to transfer his resentment. 

Barb:

<his mother tries to guilt him into being more ambitious 
than he is (she also berates the twins for not being prefects) so 
it's possible that he's reacting to his mother's pressure when he 
sees himself in the mirror covered in glory; in the end, perhaps 
pleasing his mother is really his heart's desire, and he knows what 
would please her, even though it's possibly not in his nature to 
>deliver those particular things.> 

Me:

But surely if his deepest desire was to please his mother, this is 
what he would have seen in the Mirror? Molly hugging him, telling him 
he's her favorite, etc. What he sees is himself crowned with glory. I 
think we should accept this as is: Ron has a deep desire for more 
attention, recognition - the obverse side of which is his tendency to 
jealousy. It shouldn't be downplayed. 


I want to take the middle ground between Penny (downplaying Ron's 
unambitiousness) and Barb/Pippin (downplaying Ron's jealousy). 
Barb is right, IMO, that Ron is basically unambitious. OTOH, Penny is 
right that he has a deep longing for recognition and fame. This 
desire is Ron's weakness. He is dissatisfied with his lot, and 
therefore becomes rather easily jealous. 

To grow, he needs to strggles with it and overcome it. In this sense, 
his friendship with Harry is very good for him. Difficult, but good. 
It provides him with the difficult challenge of facing what he needs 
to face and overcome – being in the shadow of somebody else. Because 
of his history, that is a difficult thing for him to handle. But he 
needs to free himself of this (psychological) bind his familial 
circumstances put him in, in order that he become the man he is meant 
to be.

The possible R/H relationship I see as a similar challenge for Ron. I 
agree with Penny that Ron might feel jealous and bitter of Hermione 
outshining him. However, in the same way that Ron has overcome his 
envy of Harry, I believe that he will overcome his jealousy of his 
SO. Furthermore, (as I see it) it is an ADDED reason why R/H ship is 
healthy. He needs to get over, work through his jealousy issue. And 
if he needs to do that, having love on his side would help him in 
this inner struggle - the way his loyalty to Harry helped him to get 
over/work through his envy of him.

Addendum:
I think that JKR is generally painting good relationships as 
challenging, a bit disharmonious even. 
The Weasley home is full of bickering – Molly with Fred and George, 
Molly with Arthur (well, Molly with everybody but Harry, actullay), 
the brothers between themselves. And yet, the Weasleys are meant to 
exemplify a very happy and "right" family. Interestingly, Vernon and 
Petunia, the paramdigmatic bad family, are always in agreement. 
Hermione, Ron and Harry are constantly arguing, fighting, offending 
one another, irritating one another. Yet they are meant to exemplify 
true friendship. It's Draco, Crabbe and Goyle who never argue (let 
alone bicker). To go even further, think how Voldemort completely 
dominates his followers. Dumbledore, on the other hand, is often 
engaged in explanations and arguments with his allies. 

So, for JKR, it seems that healthy relationships are "spicy" – 
challenging in some ways, dynamic, even a bit turbulent [I clicked 
the thesaurus for "turbulent", and reached "riotous". It quite 
captures the essence of what I'm trying to describe.] 
She would probably join Barb in saying, "long live the bickering!"



Naama