[HPforGrownups] Sirius Black-What a Guy!

[millergal8 at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 44292

Okay, I didn't really do a bang up job describing my assessment of Black.  
Let me try this again.  
Carol writes:
>   Depends on your idea of justice.  Some people would say that justice is 
>   getting what you deserve.  That does not necessarily mean that you go to 
>   court and get tried.
Me:
Actually, as a soon to be law student, that last part is -exactly- how I 
define justice.  It is how I would hope the rest of society would define 
justice also.  The only other type of justice that comes to mind is vigilante 
justice, which is exactly what Black is endorsing here.  I shudder to think 
what the world would be like if everyone took legal matters into their own 
hands.  There is a reason why we have a defined court system today.  Simply 
because someone has been wronged does not give that person the right to take 
the matter into their own hands.  I am sorry, but if Black had killed Peter 
in that shack, he would have been no better than Peter, in my eyes.  

Carol again:
>   Maybe I'm forgetting something in the book, but I don't recall that 
>   clearing his name was Sirius' original goal.  II thought he was basically 
    
>   out to get Pettigrew.
Once again, me:
On rereading the pertinent text, I do think that I was wrong about Sirius' 
original reasons for escaping.  Pg. 363 of PoA, Black says, "And the caption 
said the boy (Ron) would be going back to Hogwarts...to where Harry was...".  
This statement leads me to the conclusion that Black escaped not to seek 
revenge on Peter, but to make sure Harry was protected.   It wasn't until 
afterward that he decided the best way to do this would be to kill Peter.  
To me, this still points as evidence of Black's passionate nature.  In my 
definition, having a passionate nature means one acts before one thinks the 
situation through in its entirety.  Murder is very often a crime of passion.  
Had Black thought about this at anytime throughout that year, he would have 
realized that killing Peter was not the answer.  By keeping him alive and 
bringing him to Dumbledore, Sirius is not only giving the Potters their 
justice, and protecting Harry,  but also restoring his reputation.  Now, I 
know most of you are thinking that how in the world would he have gotten 
Dumbledore to see his PoV.  But lets review what we know about Dumbledore.  
1.  He persuades the previous headmaster to keep an expelled student on as 
assistant groundskeeper (actually, he may have been headmaster at that 
time...as its almost 2 am I am too lazy to fully research that, but its not 
critical to the case, the point is he believed in Hagrid).
2.  He allows this groundskeeper to become a full fledged teacher after his 
name is cleared.  
3.  He not only lets a werewolf into the school as a student, but also hires 
that werewolf to teach there some years later.
4.  He does not seem to care a bit that Hagrid is a half-giant.  He refuses 
to accept his resignation, clearly a sign that he once again believes in 
Hagrid
Now, given all this, DD does not come off as some hard case who would not be 
open to hearing Blacks story.  All Black has to do is get word to DD that he 
has some news on the whole secret keeper business.  If Black had given any 
sign of good will, I think Dumbledore would have been open minded enough to 
listen. He found Pig in the wild to deliver a message, so it is clearly 
possible that he could have gotten a message off to DD.  Even if he felt he 
needed to have Peter before the went to DD, he still needn't kill Peter.   
Carol again:
>   Also, I'm in the camp with those who aren't going to 
>   dwell on the slashing of the painting to illustrate a personality 
>   characteristic.  For one thing, it was a plot necessity.
me:
Well, showing us some of the characters personality traits is also a plot 
necessity.  Who knows what is in store for Sirius in the future?  His 
impulsiveness could very well be a major plot point in future books.  The 
slashing scene simply kills two birds with one stone.  It was meant to make 
us think Sirius was deranged, but it still does show Sirius doesn't think 
before acting.  See the above argument for what Sirius should have done.  
Carol:
>   But he didn't ask Harry to live with him until later.  That had not been 
>   his original intention, so there was nothing to think through.

Me:
Based on my aforementioned position, Harry was the main reason for Black 
wanting to get to Pettigrew, so he obviously cares for Harry.  He wants to 
take baby Harry from Hagrid, so it is clear that he takes his responsibility 
of being godfather seriously. By killing Peter he is throwing this chance 
right out the window.  I don't think for a minute that after killing Peter he 
would have gotten up and walked out without looking back. He would have 
wanted to stay in contact with Harry.  Allowing Peter to live would have 
given him the chance he wanted 12 years ago.
Carol says:
Christie:
>>And keep in
>>mind that it is essential to have Peter alive so the whole story can work
>>itself out at a trial.

>Isn't that where the idea of clearing his Black's name came from?  Isn't 
>that part of how Sirius was talked into letting Peter live?

Me:  
Actually, Sirius wasn't talked into letting Peter live.  Black, decided that 
Harry was the one who deserved to make the ultimate decision.  It was Harry 
who decided Peter would live.  Black just respected this decision, I think he 
personally still wanted to kill Peter.  He still threatens to kill Peter if 
he transforms.  But that is all beside the point, Black shouldn't have even 
been in the position of needing to be "talked down".  It is obvious that the 
benefits of keeping Peter alive outweigh those of killing him.  You get one 
moment of satisfaction from killing him, but a lifetime of freedom by keeping 
him alive, not a hard choice to make in that light is it?  
And finally, Carol:
>   He'd be a rather flat character if he were perfect!
Me:
Too true!  I also think this is a way for JKR to allow the readers to 
identify with her characters.  We all have a little bit of Sirius in us! :)

Christy, who finds she is quite tired and is now off to bed!  Hurrah!