Getting the secret out...and breaking the Charm ( Was: PP instead of SB)

[princesspeaette]

No: HPFGUIDX 77936

 "meltowne" <meltowne at y...> 
> wrote:
>  
>What I wonder is how members of the order found out where they 
>were. I would assume they had 3 or 4 options before they cast the 
>fidelius, and then informed the secret keeper of that choice.  
>Since the charm was cast only shortly before they were killed, I 
>would assume Harry was directly protected by it, meaning that for 
>Hagrid to rescue him, Hagrid had to know the location.  That, of 
>course, means someone told Hagrid where they were - yes, we know 
>Dumbledore sent him, but since Dumbledore was not the secret keeper, 
>he couldn't have told Hagrid where to go - just that he needed to go!


Melopene replied: 
>Yes! Yes, see??? This is what I can NOT figure out. If ONLY PP knew 
>how to find the Potters, even if the HOUSE was in plain view, then 
>How did Hagrid (and whoever else showed up in those missing hours) 
>manage to find James and Lily's bodies (unless the charm is broken 
>at death) and Harry? (Who was alive so if the death/charmbreak is 
>true would have been INVISIBLE.)
>  



Margaret (me):

Someone, I forget who (sorry!) suggested that there might me a trust 
issue required for the charm to be performed.  You have to trust the 
person who will be keeping your secret for the secret to be "hidden 
inside a single living soul" (Professor Flitwick, PoA).  Harry was 
only an infant, and therefore incapable of trusting anyone with his 
life, and therfore might not have been protected by the spell itself, 
just by association of being with his parents.



I also have a theory (pretty much unconfirmed by canon to date, see 
bottom for space filling 'maybe') that since the spell is so complex, 
it might be possible there's a part where the person refuses to 
divulge the secret to a certain person(s). In this case the person 
would have been either Voldemort himself, or any Death Eater, 
depending on whether or not the Order thought the spy was in direct 
contact with Voldemort.  By violating this part of the agreement, 
Pettigrew Spilled the secret.  

I think that once this happened, and the trust was violated, the 
spell may have been broken. I don't think not being the Secret Keeper 
affects knowing where to find them if you knew before i.e. if 
Dumbeldore knew before the Fidelius Charm was done where the Potters 
would be hiding he still knew afterwards.  Since Dumbledore's the 
Head of the Order, and he obviously wasn't the spy (even if you 
subscribe to the Evil!DD theory you have to admit he was the one who 
arranged for them to go into hiding) it would make sense for him to 
have found an unlikely place for the Potters to hide. 

But he would have had to have been told by the Secret Keeper if he 
wanted to find/contact them (the "nose pressed against their sitting 
room window" part).  So he would have known where to look once he 
heard they were attacked, and anyone could have found them after the 
charm was broken.

I also think it was just the Potters and not their house that was 
protected by the charm.  People would notice if a house that had 
always been there (even if they hadn't been the ones living there and 
it was new to them) suddenly vanished.  The house probably appeared 
unoccupied from the outside unless you knew the Secret.  

*The fact that 12 Grimmauld Place appears from nowhere when you think 
about it is NOT due to the Fidelius Charm but to the fact that it is 
unplottable. (Sirius said his father had put "every protection known 
to wizard kind" on the house, including making it unplottable.)

Just theories of course, I hope JKR explains the Fidelius Charm in 
more detail as Harry learns more about his parents (and their deaths).




~Margaret




***My "possible" canon confirmation:

PoA pg 205 (US Hardback)

(Fudge speaking)"One of them [DD spies] tipped him off, he alerted 
James and LIly at once.  He advised them to go into hiding.  Well of 
course You-know-who wasn't an easy person to hide from.  Dumbledore 
told them their cest chance was the Fidelius Charm."
"How does that work?" Madame Rosmerta
Professor Flitwick cleared his throat.
"An immensly complex spell, involving the magical concealment of a 
secret inside a single, living soul.  The information is hidden 
inside the chosen person, or Secret-Keeper, and is henceforth 
impossible to find-- unless, of course, the Secret-Keeper chooses to 
divulge it.  As long as the Secret-Keeper *refused* (my emphasis) to 
speak, You-know-who could search the village where James and Lily 
were staying for years and never find them, not even if he had his 
nose ressed against their sitting room window!"

I think Petigrew divulging the secret to the one person it most 
needed to be kept from is what breaks the charm, and *could* be 
confirmed by 'as long as [he] refused to speak', perhaps even by 
anwsering a direct question it breaks the Charm, and it doesn't 
matter who asks it.