Whoa Nelly! Lots of Snape, was Harry in NEWT Potions Class?

[Amanda Geist]

No: HPFGUIDX 87675

[cobwebby door creaks, and an Ancient Snapologist crawls out, straightens
up, wipes cobwebs off hair]

My, my. I heard all the noise out here. What a happening Snape thread!

I don't have much time, so I am *gasp* combining posts (pick yourselves up
off the floor, you other oldies). Let's see...

Fred waldrop:

>I don't know, if Snape would have came out to the forest
> to let Harry know that Sirius was OK, Harry would not have went to
> the MOM. But Snape was in the school probably thinking "hahaha, you
> don't know if your godfather is alive or dead, and that is fine by
> me, you filthy little...." So, in a way it is Snape's fault. If he
> would have gone and told Harry that Sirius was home and OK, Sirius
> would still be alive.

Amanda:

Okay, I'd like to do some timeline-ing here. It will be quick and dirty as I
flip through the book, corrections invited. But it seems to me that this
episode has as much potential for misinterpretation as the Shrieking Shack,
in terms of what Snape does and where he is and what he knows at which time.

--Harry is in exams and has his vision.
--He gathers Ron & Hermione and explains.
--He works out a plan Hermione can live with.
--Ginny & Luna show up, involve themselves.
--They go off to use the fireplace in Umbridge's office.
--Harry talks to Kreacher, who lies and says Sirius has gone to the
Ministry.
--Harry et al. are caught and all are in Umbridge's office. Neville is one
of the group now.
--Snape is summoned.
--Harry does his best to tell Snape what is going on.
--Snape leaves. He has understood, but cannot reveal this in any way to
Harry, as they are in front of Umbridge.

Simultaneous:
--Harry & Hermione bamboozle Umbridge and get her into the forest.
Snape checks with Sirius to see where he is and if he's in danger; finds him
to be safe.

--Centaurs deal with Umbridge, about to deal with Harry & Hermione, Grawp's
appearance intercedes.
--Harry & Hermione joined by Neville, Ginny, Ron, and Luna, who *also*
apparently don't have the sense God gave a brass doorknob, as they *also*
have not gone to the only Order member, Snape, instead of following Harry &
Hermione into the forest.
--They get onto thestrals and fly to London.

--Sometime in the interval above, while everyone is still in the forest:
Snape becomes concerned when Harry and Hermione do not come back out: "When,
however, you did not return from your trip into the forest with Dolores
Umbridge, Professor Snape grew worried that you still believed Sirius to be
a captive of Lord Voldemort's. He alerted certain Order members at once."
(OoP, 830 [US]).

--Sometime in this interval is when Harry et al. land in London and enter
the Ministry, and begin their explorations.

--The Order members Snape contacted made up a party and went to the
Ministry. Sirius ignored Snape's request to stay and inform Dumbledore when
he arrived, and went with them.

--While Harry et al. are in the Ministry, and the Order members are going to
their aid, is the time that Snape went into the forest to search for Harry
and Hermione, for he did this after he alerted the Order members. [Canon
does not say when he came back out, or what he found there; we do know he
did *not* find Dolores Umbridge, but I personally can't blame him for not
looking for her real hard.]

So.

Snape was clearly aware that Harry and Hermione had gone into the forest
with Umbridge. The fact that he became concerned when they failed to come
back out, tells me he was waiting for them to, and watching for them. Snape
also knows that Harry's broomstick is in the dungeon, and I don't think
anyone could reasonably have expected that Harry would find *another* way to
fly to London. It was a quite reasonable thing, in my opinion, for him to be
waiting for them to come back out, rather than chasing into the forest where
it's an even bet of even finding them, just to reassure Harry. That's out of
character. Snape need not have any malicious intent to have done just as he
did; he's totally in character to do what he sees as needful and wait for
developments--which is what he did.

Alla:

Be fair, doesn't Snape refusal to teach Harry's occlumency sounds a little
bit suspicious to you?
As I said earlier although I understand why Harry went into pensieve, I also
think that he was very wrong to do so.

So, Snape is a member of the Order, supposedly an honest and trusted one. He
knows what kind of risks they may run into with Harry's mind open to
Voldemort influence and he still can't get over his old hurts. Despite
supposedly being a superb occlumence, he could not control his emotions.
They got the best of him. don't you think that it may be foreshadowing of
his future?

Amanda:

I think Snape has several reasons for not continuing to teach Harry. Look at
them, though, from the perspective of one who must stand and face Voldemort
and lie to him.

One, surely, is that his hatred of James is too strong. That hatred is
spilling over on to Harry, understandably. But the *specific memory* of the
deepest reasons for the hatred are spilling over onto Harry now, via this
Pensieve incident. This will make it more difficult, I'd think, to keep
James-connected hatred/incidents and Harry-connected hatred/incidents
separate--which I believe Snape must be able to do in order to successfully
"shut down those feelings and memories that contradict the lie." Harry
knowing about all this, could endanger Snape's ability to successfully lie
to Voldemort.

Which, I'll admit, Snape probably seized on as a great excuse because he is
still so pissed off at James. That doesn't mean it may not be valid in
itself.

Okay, two. Snape has already as much as told Harry that he [Snape] spies on
Voldemort. Further deep explorations with a boy about whom Voldemort is
likely to be very concerned and want more information on, may also endanger
Snape's role as a spy, by putting dangerous revelations into memories that
Snape must let closer to the surface in speaking to Voldemort.

And, edging now into how Snape would have received an apology from Harry, fo
r any of what I believe are *several* instances where one is warranted: I
believe Snape would have received him poorly. Or at least, Harry would have
thought so.

For I believe that Snape's entire modus operandi has been a deliberate
effort to maintain his attitudes, in preparation for this current state
where he is in Voldemort's circle again. Snape must keep his feelings about
certain people, his memories, consistent in order to facilitate his use of
Occlumency to lie to Voldemort. He must possess true memories of favoring
Draco. He must possess true memories of hating Harry. The emotions attached
to those individuals and those memories must be accurate; and so Snape has
never made any attempt to alter those; has ignored oppportunities to
recognize other motives in Harry than he ascribes, etc. Snape cannot let
himself change his opinions of these two--or more accurately, he cannot
allow himself to build up emotions or memories where they are concerned that
would invalidate the face he presents to Voldemort.

We already know that the plan put into motion at the end of GoF, for which
Snape was "ready" and "prepared," is one of long standing. Snape and
Dumbledore both know exactly what they are talking about, what is being
asked of Snape. So I submit that a lot--NOT all--of Snape's behavior towards
Harry and Draco is deliberate, in preparation for being able to successfully
lie to Voldemort via Occlumency. [I'm absolutely certain that Snape's past
makes this pattern *easy* to facilitate; but I do believe that he made a
conscious decision to do this, as well.]

I also think this is why Snape never eats at Sirius' house. He can't afford
to have a memory of liking these people, eating with them, in any setting
where his mind may relax. I think he probably has all his planning
conversations with Dumbledore, and debriefs the Order, in the same place
(where he can control the memory of it) and after some mental preparations
(where he can control the emotions of it).

Alla again:

For example, I was staring at my computer with disbelief, when I read
somebody's post (I think it was Pip, if not, I apologise) that Snape
was less at fault for Sirius' death than Harry was. If you tell me that you
agree with this statement, I would say that you are not being fair either.

Amanda:

Okay, I don't agree with it. If you're talking *intent,* I think nobody is
to blame. Except maybe Sirius for ignoring Snape's request and charging off
with the rest of them--which wasn't malicious and was totally
understandable, but still was stupid.

If you're talking whose actions brought it about? Intent aside? Just who did
what that caused what? I would have to say Harry. He had not understood what
he'd been told about the link between himself and Voldemort, and so when
Voldemort began to use it, he was unprepared; he ignored Hermione's
reasoning; he forgot Snape was an Order resource; after he remembered, he
didn't go back and *get* Snape, but instead, charged off to London and
required rescuing.

All Snape did was respond to the information he'd been given; alert the
Order when it became apparent that there was a chance Harry had gone to the
Ministry; and search the forest in case Harry hadn't gone, and was still out
there.

I think Harry was having a terrible time coming to grips with the fact that
it was his misjudgement that led to all this. I think he focused on Snape as
a scapegoat, to avoid having to realize it. I also think he will have to
accept it, as he matures, but it's a bit early in the grieving process to
expect that yet and his blaming Snape is almost inevitable.

Okay, now my take on the subject line:

I think Harry's days of Potions under Snape are over. I think he won't have
made NEWT grade (or at least not to Snape's satisfaction). I do think Harry
will pursue the career of being an Auror, though. So, what I predict:

Dumbledore will finally give the DADA job to Snape. He will do this because
Educational Decree 22 will not have been repealed, and he can find nobody
else, and Fudge has not *quite* learned his lesson enough, and there's some
massively unsuitable candidate Fudge could appoint. Dumbledore will decide
it's worth risking Snape as DADA teacher to keep this other candidate *out*
of Hogwarts.

Harry must continue to interact with Snape, for plot reasons. JKR has
already been brilliant in the mechanism she invented to make them know each
other much better, while getting no closer at all. I think DADA is a perfect
venue for this to continue. Also, Snape is one of Harry's principal father
figures, and this relationship must continue to develop. Which I think it
is--Snape and Harry's conceptions of each other are changing, from GoF and
that look over the ending feast, to their interactions in OoP. I think this
will continue in the next book(s), and DADA is a logical place, for here
Snape has more experience but no more skill than Harry (unlike Potions).
There is more room for the logical direction of a father-son relationship to
develop, in DADA.

Harry must continue in Potions to be an Auror, but I think Snape won't
accept the grade he probably got. Another Potions teacher may, though; and
so I think there will be another one.

Okay, I think there were more points I wanted to hit, but that'll do for
now. Fire away.

~Amanda, premier Snapologist, still a bit cobwebby