Whoa Nelly! Lots of Snape, was Harry in NEWT Potions Class?

[bluesqueak]

No: HPFGUIDX 87702


Whee! A Snape discussion!

OK, a couple of points. I will be combining posts here.

In http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/87657

Laura writes:

>
> Maybe, but maybe not. I keep remembering how dear Severus reacted
> when Harry was frantically trying to get help for Crouch Sr in

> GoF.Snape toyed with him as long as possible despite Harry's 
> obvious distress. <Snip>

And Alla replies:

>>>>>>>>
Oh, yeah. Very helpful he was indeed. Don't you think that this scene
was Snape at its worst to Harry in GoF. Who knows, maybe Crouch Sr.
could have been saved if Harry could have gotten to Dumbledore's few
moments earlier.
>>>>>>>>

Pip!Squeak:
Ooh, I love this scene. It's the one in GoF, Ch 28, p. 484 (UK 
edition). I love it because, after reading this scene for the first 
time, every reader I know (including me, on the first reading) will 
come away and, with their hands on their hearts, inform you quite 
seriously that Snape delayed Harry. If it hadn't been for Snape 
being such a git, Crouch Sr. might have been saved.

It is JKR's most superb bit of misdirection. Snape doesn't delay 
Harry getting to Dumbledore at all. Harry gets to Dumbledore a lot 
sooner than he would have done *because of Snape*.

It's all in two lines just before Snape's entrance:
"Perhaps Dumbledore was in the staff room? He started running as 
fast as he could towards the staircase –" [ie the staircase to the 
*staff room*, *away* from Dumbledore's office].

It's at that point that Snape sees Harry running at high speed away 
from the entrance to Dumbledore's office, and *calls him back*.

We then get seven lines in which Snape is pretty nasty, before 
Dumbledore also appears out of the doorway to his office. It's these 
seven lines, plus Harry's later assessment of the scene (Ch. 29 
p.491) that fix the idea in the reader's mind that Snape delayed 
Harry.

If you read the lines out loud, you'll find the entire conversation 
between Harry and Snape takes 20 odd seconds. Then Dumbledore 
appears. It could even be argued that the very short delay meant 
that Snape already knew Dumbledore was coming down the stairs behind 
him [grin].

But, even if you think Snape didn't know Dumbledore would be out 
soon -  20 odd seconds versus the time Harry would have taken to not 
find Dumbledore in the staff room? Before Harry and Dumbledore 
reached the scene of the crime, Barty Jr had time to carry his 
father's corpse into the Forbidden Forest and cover it with his 
Invisibility Cloak, then return to the scene and talk to 
Dumbledore . Those twenty odd seconds of Snape talk made no 
difference whatsoever. 

And if Snape had not interfered, Harry would have caused an even 
longer delay in getting back to Crouch Sr, by looking for Dumbledore 
in the wrong place.



Amanda, in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/87675 
has already presented a very strong case for Snape's attitude to 
Harry being *partly* caused by his need to present truthful memories 
to Voldemort. There is other evidence in support of this. 

Snape is revealed in Order of the Phoenix as a good actor. Ch. 32 
pp. 656-657 (the scene where he's called to Umbridge's office), and 
OOP Ch. 37 p. 734 (where Dumbledore reveals that Snape gave Umbridge 
fake Veritaserum without her ever realising what he was up to)

Note that whenever Harry talks to Dumbledore about Snape hating 
*him*, Dumbledore will immediately divert the reply to Snape's 
hatred of James Potter. He does this in both Philosopher's Stone and 
in Order of the Phoenix.

In Philosopher's Stone, Harry asks if Quirrel was telling the truth 
about Snape hating him because he hated James [Ch. 17, p.217 UK 
paperback]. Dumbledore doesn't actually answer the question – he 
says is that it is true that Snape hated James. His reply doesn't 
suggest at any point that Snape hates Harry.

In Order of the Phoenix, Harry is talking about Snape throwing him 
out of the Occlumency lessons. He suggests that Snape was trying to 
soften him up for Voldemort. And Dumbledore's reply again refers to –
not Snape's dislike of *Harry*, but Snape's feelings about *James*.


The idea that `Snape hates Harry because of James' isn't actually 
canon. It's a theory.  `Snape hates James' is canon. `Snape is 
deeply unpleasant to Harry' is canon. We don't actually know whether 
Snape is unpleasant to Harry because he hates him. There may be 
another reason.

As well as the `Snape is putting on an act for use against Voldemort 
theory', as Amanda also points out, Snape seems to have the `stern 
parent' role. Dumbledore generally has the `indulgent grandfather' 
role; Harry can get away with just about anything as far as 
Dumbledore is concerned. It's Snape who's got the job of enforcing 
the rules and teaching Harry about limits.

This stern parent, whilst verbally abusive, only once causes Harry 
actual harm (under the extreme provocation of the Pensieve incident 
in Occlumency). Otherwise, his sarcasm is generally directed towards 
the idea of `there are rules, you are not above them, you are here 
to learn and I will teach you whether you want to learn or not'. 

It's interesting that on the one occasion where Snape has the Trio 
absolutely bang to rights with an expulsion offence (when they 
attacked him in the Shrieking Shack), he back-pedals furiously. 
Suddenly, the kids are under a spell. They weren't responsible. 
Three years of shrieking `Expel Potter', and when Snape *really* has 
the opportunity, he's going `hold on a minute
' [grin].

Keep an eye on dear Severus. What's happening under that greasy 
scalp is probably not what you think is happening ;-)

Pip!Squeak