[HPforGrownups] Austen and Why tiny, tiny Parallels DO Exist for R/H and/or H/G (was a large number of varied things)

[heiditandy]

No: HPFGUIDX 52446

Nicole wrote:

> Okay, wait, I have to call you out on something here. 
> Throughout your post you've been saying that Lilac's
> points don't apply because there are too many
> differences between HP and Austen yet here you are
> saying that maybe Draco isn't quite like Darcy but the
> comparison can still be made.  :)

Actually, I'm comparing individual characters here, and saying that a
sea change in both characters would be needed to compare the ships,
which is a little different from saying that SHIP A from the HP books
will parallel Romance Y in This Other Novel. When you're making a SHIP
argument by comparing a possible romance in the HP books with an
"established" romance in a different novel, there are a few factors that
come into play, including the individual characters themselves and the
interaction between them. I was arguing that *at this point in canon*
there are some fundamental elements in the friendship between Ron and
Hermione (as well as in Ron's character) that make it difficult to draw
a parallel between R/H and Darcy/Elizabeth, and that there are some
things in the characters of Harry and Ginny that make it difficult to
draw a parallel between H/G and Emma/Knightly. 

Ron and Hermione are friends in canon. Plain and simple - everyone can
agree that at a minimum, at this moment in canon, they are friends.
However, Elizabeth and Darcy were not friends in P&P before they
developed romantic interest in each other, and therefore, any parallel
breaks down, right there. 

In comparing Draco to Darcy, on the other hand, I have not attempted to
say that there is a 100% parallel between their characters. However, the
themes behind Darcy's characterisation are repeated in Rowling's
characterisation of Draco, either in the text itself or the subtext.
Look at these lines from P&P:

Darcy, on the contrary, had seen a collection of people in whom there
was little beauty and no fashion, for none of whom he had felt the
smallest interest, and from none received either attention or pleasure. 

"I cannot forget the follies and vices of others so soon as I ought, nor
their offences against myself. My feelings are not puffed about with
every attempt to move them. My temper would perhaps be called resentful.
-- My good opinion once lost is lost for ever."

He can be a conversible companion if he thinks it worth his while. Among
those who are at all his equals in consequence, he is a very different
man from what he is to the less prosperous. 

It has often led him to be liberal and generous, -- to give his money
freely, to display hospitality, to assist his tenants, and relieve the
poor. Family pride, and filial pride, for he is very proud of what his
father was, have done this. Not to appear to disgrace his family, to
degenerate from the popular qualities, or lose the influence of the
Pemberley House, is a powerful motive. 

*******************

Now, I've seen some comments overnight that Darcy's largesses among the
poor would never be emulated by the Malfoys - but of course, we've heard
tell of the generous donations to St Mungo's that Lucius made - and we
have no idea if there were restrictions on the benefits of that money -
in other words, is it only to go towards care of purebloods? We don't
know, and we shouldn't presume that it is, given that Lucius, at least
through that point, has had to at least talk a certain game publicly -
that wizarding pride is important, certainly, but Muggle-born students
shouldn't be at risk from that dangerous monster, during CoS. His words
in public mean something other than his actions in private, and people
who are biased and bigoted, yet wealthy, still donate to noble causes as
a face-saving manipulation. 


Nicole, in fact, stated: 
> I object to any
> comparison of Draco and Darcy.  Aside from the fact
> that they're both phenominally rich and live on huge
> estates, I see no similarities between Draco and
> Darcy.  

Huge estate? Draco? We actually have no idea whether the manor is a huge
estate or not. But leaving that aside...

> Darcy's pride is based on the idea that he is
> socially superior to other.  Draco's is based on the
> idea that he's racially superior to others.  

And at the time that Jane Austen was writing her novels, IIRC from my
British history studies about 15 years ago, there was only one "race" in
Britain - there were various religions, but there were so few people
whose racial background was not "Anglo" as to be virtually uncountable,
at least in the circles in which the characters in P&P would have moved.
There was nothing to be racist about, because there were no people of
different races. 

However, Darcy is condescending to those who he thinks are not worth
knowing (i.e. of lower social status) and while he's generous to the
poor and kind to his servents, they're not his social equals and he
would never consider socializing with them. 

> At no
> time does Darcy imply that Elizabeth and her family
> should be killed because their blood isn't pure. 

True, but isn't that overdoing the parallel a little too much? There's
no discussion of killing people at all in P&P, just of some fish, but
Draco's comment that he wished Hermione would be the next victim is
specific to *Hermione*, not to all muggle-born students, and certainly
not to all Muggles. He has many grounds to hate Hermione personally, not
the least that she's trouncing him in his classes. Her background isn't
*the* reason he wants her dead, it *a* reason he thinks she *could* be
killed (both there and in the end of GoF). 

> Moreover, Draco and his family treat their servants
> like dirt while when Elizabeth visits Pemberley, she
> finds that his servants can't say enough nice things
> about him.  
Wait a moment - when did we ever see Draco's treament of servants in
canon? We don't see him interact with house-elves at all. Yes, Lucius is
an elf-abuser, but we haven't seen or heard of Draco doing any of that.
He sneers about Hagrid, but not to his face, and let's put it this way-
his treatment of Hagrid in class isn't any more obnoxious than Harry's
treatment of Snape in class. 

> And anyway, isn't Ron's protectiveness of
> his sister far more Darcy-like than Draco's extremely
> distasteful comment after Cedric Diggory's death?  
You mean on the train? The day after Draco stood with the rest of the
school and toasted Cedric's memory? If you'd like to go back to my posts
from last month that his comment on the train could be read as a
warning, just as his comments in the woods at the World Cup were a
warning, you might have a slightly different take on why Draco said what
he said in the train. 

Yes, Ron is protective of his sister, sometimes, when he's not telling
her to go away. There are tonnes of smidges of character-comparisons
that we can do, taking a tiny bit about a character from another book
and saying that it parallels a character in HP. Voldemort has some
parallels to Darth Vader, but we know from JKR's interviews that it's
*highly unlikely* that he's Harry's father. SO there, the parallel falls
down. 

Btw - there is one area where there is no parallel between Draco and
Darcy, which I'm sure we can all agree on - the way they look. Darcy is
tall and dark, whereas Draco is small and fair, much like... (oh wait,
it's another literary parallel):

Colin Craven from The Secret Garden

See? 

The boy had a sharp, delicate face the color of ivory and he seemed to
have eyes too big for it. He had also a lot of hair which tumbled over
his forehead in heavy locks and made his thin face seem smaller. Mary
could not help noticing what strange eyes he had. They were agate
gray... 
..."I think he's a very spoiled boy," said Mary. 

Oh, come on ;) Even the Draco-haters can agree on this one. Can't we? 


Heidi, looking for something that the *entire* list can agree on