[HPforGrownups] More Ginny, Hermione and the Curse of Mary Sue (Was: self-confident Hermione?)

[Penny Linsenmayer]

No: HPFGUIDX 52480

Hi --

Unfortunately, I don't have the time or energy to respond to all the messages that have generated on the general Ginny topics raised in part by my message yesterday ---- though I hope to respond in more detail tomorrow ("tomorrow is *another* day" she cries in swoony Vivien Lee style).  But, I *have* to comment on a few things:

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999 <foxmoth at q...>" 
<foxmoth at q...> wrote:
> In a way, the secret of Ginny's importance is like the Chamber of 
> Secrets itself. If you  interpret the secret language of symbol and 
> metaphor, and hunt for clues in the structure of the story, then 
> you can understand the voice within the walls and the meaning 
> will be revealed. Those who accept only  "solid, believable, 
> verifiable fact"  will hunt in vain, and may perhaps declare, in 
> aggravated tones, that it does not exist. <g>

Yes, just wait until you hear in my upcoming book review how John Granger interprets that same scene down in the Chamber.  I think Rowling was right to say that people will see in her books what they want to.  When I first read CoS, I would agree with those who say that it signified a potential future for H/G.  It's what's happened after CoS that dispels that notion in my mind.  I think JKR would have continued to build on Ginny, ever so subtly, if she intended her to be Harry's ultimate love interest.  She has decidedly not done so.  

Julie - <<<I just have to think that even in a kids' book, that stuff is there for a reason. 

"even in a *kid's* book," eh?  Deep sigh.  No energy for that one.

Otherwise, why not have Percy be the one with the magic 
diary? Or Colin Creevy? Or Neville? We wouldn't have suspected any of 
them either. (All right, Percy probably wouldn't have been 
susceptible to the diary, and he winds up as the proud owner of the 
Red Herring as it is. Colin and Neville are equally likely to have 
been victims, though.)

But boys don't generally write in diaries at that age.  Yeah, Tom Riddle bought it for himself ..... but did he ever intend to write in it?  I doubt it.  No, the whole "diary" plot quite clearly belongs to a young girl of Ginny's age, IMHO.  Percy would never have fallen prey to *that* (he has faults and vulnerabilities, to be sure, but I can't see this particular scenario).  And Hermione is much too sensible.  So, maybe it really has nothing whatever to do with Ginny other than she's more the "type"  -- IOW, maybe she is just a plot device in CoS.  The fact that her character has received no further attention or development screams that loud & clear to me anyway.  

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "heiditandy" <heidit at n...> 
wrote:
> I do, however, see Hermione in Book 4 as mature for her age, and 
can be
> strong willed and independent, and simultaneously, sensitive about
> certain things, hence, the crying she does throughout all four 
books.

> That crying, IMHO, is not a sign of immaturity

Julie: <<<I brought up the instances of Hermione crying not as evidence that *she's* immature, but to show that a character generally considered 
mature by most readers cries in the text. And that it's in-character, 
in my opinion, for a teenage girl to cry.

One of the most popular arguments for "Why Ginny is a Waste of Space" 
is that she's a crybaby: as evidenced by the fact that she cries when 
she wakes up down in the Chamber of Secrets. Now, I'll concede that 
Hermione *is* more mature than Ginny in a lot of ways, but at the 
same time no one judges Hermione for crying about things that are far 
less serious than, say, attempted murder and possession by an evil 
entity.>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is the real reason I wanted to reply on this thread tonight.  Guys: It's not Ginny's crying that makes me think she's portrayed as younger than she is.  Not at all.  It really isn't.  What I said is that her characterization is consistently painting her as much younger than her chronological age is.  That little whiny girl on the platform --- I would have pegged her as 8 ...... *at most.*  I was as surprised as Harry to learn at the Burrow that she was starting at Hogwarts.  <g>  I really can't help but think that JKR either had a very odd picture of 10 yr old girls when she wrote that scene .....or she changed her mind about Ginny's age later.  She's also shown holding Molly's hand .......what .....as late as PoA?  Sorry, but I don't buy it.  I know I got lots of ("I'd still hold my mother's hand" responses the last time I brought that up ...... and all sorts of cultural arguments).  I still don't buy it.  That's a depiction of a much younger (and/or heavily smothered) child than she is.  

It's not the crying.  It's not.  And, I'm stunned by the number of people who seem to think that was what I was driving at.  :::looks mystified::::

Penny
(who thinks crying is very healthy indeed and that everyone, most especially males, should do more of it)




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