SHIP: Re: Banter and other SHIP subjects

[Penny Linsenmayer]

No: HPFGUIDX 50801

Hi --

Angua said actually a fair few things I can agree with or at least concede (though I still don't concede that Hermione *enjoys* the bickering with Ron.....I don't think she does).  Angua then said:

<<<<<<Now, tension can be resolved in two ways -- by conciliation or by conflict and a clear winner.  We expect the Harry/Voldemort tension to be 
resolved the second way.  Some people may expect the Ron/Hermione to 
be resolved the second way (with Hermione the "winner" and Ron cast 
into the outer darkness).  But I expect the Ron/Hermione tension to 
be resolved with conciliation, of which romantic intimacy is a common 
subtype.>>>>>>>>>>>

I really don't understand why the H/H'ers have to be made out as anti-Ron and the "villains" in any debate on this topic, Angua.  It happens that *I* don't really like Ron much at all (like Ebony, I loved him right up until about mid-way through PoA and began to actively dislike him during GoF......though because I have liked him in the past, I have every confidence that I *might* like him again).  However, I do know plenty of H/H shippers who have absolutely no desire to see "Ron cast into the outer darkness."  Good grief.  There's no need to be so broad-brush about our ship really.  I don't think the R/H conflict needs to be resolved through confrontation.  But, why don't you acknowledge that it might not ever be "resolved"?  It *might* be that: This. Is. The. Way. They. Communicate.  It might *not* be unresolved sexual tension.  I have a hard time accepting that UST is the reason they've been bickering since they met at age 11, frankly.  So, I don't think that the bickering is "masking" the UST.

Ah, the ongoing debate about whether Hermione enjoys the "Exchanges" or not.  

I said: > >If [JKR] continues to stress words 
> >like "savagely," "impatiently," "sputtered 
> >indignantly," "acidly," "coldly," "angrily," etc., she might give 
> >us  the impression that Ron and Hermione really don't interact 
very > >positively during their "bantering."
> 
Derannimer responded: > This is true, Angua. JKR *does* tend to use extremely negative words > to describe the way that Hermione reacts to Ron's teasing. (Although 
> I think that that "savagely" actually belonged to Ron; you can 
> scratch that one if you like to.) But my point is that H/Hers have 
a > pretty objective reason for thinking that Hermione doesn't enjoy 
TE. > There are clues in JKR's diction and description to suggest that 
she > doesn't. JKR uses very negative words here. 

Angua gives us a list of examples of "positives" associated with "Exchanges" between Ron and Hermione.  
  
<<<<<"I've still got ten Galleons," she said, checking her purse.  "It's 
my birthday in September, and Mum and Dad gave me some money to get 
myself an early birthday present."

"How about a nice *book*?" said Ron innocently.

"No, I don't think so," said Hermione composedly.  "I really want an 
owl...."

I would say 'composedly' is a positive-connotation word.>>>>>>>>

Er.......*this* is Ron *trying* to interact with Hermione and her not getting it, not playing.  She's *serious*.  She totally misses his joke.  This is funny for the reader, but it's not really a good example of Ron and Hermione interacting.  Isn't it just one-sidedness, really?  

<<<<5 - She likes that kind of humor when Ron does it to other people 
(PoA Ch. 15):

Professor Trelawney rustled past.

"Would anyone like me to help them interpret the shadowy portents 
within their Orb?" she murmured over the clinking of her bangles.

"I don't need help," Ron whispered.  "It's obvious what this means.  
There's going to be loads of fog tonight."

Both Harry and Hermione burst out laughing.>>>>>>>>>>

Yes, but this too is not Ron/Hermione interaction, Angua.  We're talking about the direct interaction between the two of them, not whether Hermione has or lacks a sense of humor.  I think it's clear she has a sense of humor and enjoys using it herself.  But, I don't think she's enjoying much of the Exchanges with Ron.

<<<<6 - She likes to be proved right (PoA Ch.22):

(from Sirius's letter) ...It was I who sent you the Firebolt --

"Ha!" said Hermione triumphantly.  "See!  I *told* you it was from 
him!"

"Yes, but he hadn't jinxed it, had he?" said Ron. 

The fact that she enjoys being proved right this time makes me think 
she enjoys other times when she is able to show that Ron is wrong, 
even when the text doesn't say 'triumphantly,' even when she 'snaps.'>>>>>>

So, her enjoying "proving Ron wrong" is good for a romance, *how?*  :::looks puzzled by the logic:::::::

<<<<7.  "You're eating again, I notice," said Ron, watching Hermione adding 
liberal amounts of jam to her toast too. 

"I've decided there are better ways of making a stand about elf 
rights," said Hermione haughtily. 

"Yeah... and you were hungry," said Ron, grinning. 

That whole passage gives me a positive feeling, and I can't believe 
Hermione didn't enjoy it.  It is the normal friendly banter (oops! I 
mean, ummm, Exchanges) between friends.  She started it, too -- 
jumping on Harry's remark.  And I see both "briskly" and "haughtily" 
as positive-connotation words in this context.>>>>>>>>

Yes, *between friends* is spot-on, Angua.  <eg>  Yes, this is a positive scene.  We aren't arguing that there are *no* positive R/H interactions.  We're not arguing that they aren't friends or are only remaining friends because of Harry or something of that nature.  We're just saying that there are some strong indicators through JKR's word choice that the bickering/bantering and arguments between Ron and Hermione are not all fun and games.  There's a decided negativity to the word choice she's employed in many cases and pointing up all the positive interactions isn't going to cancel out that negativity.  I think it's JKR signaling that there is a problem in how they interact at present.  

Penny  




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