[HPforGrownups] Hermione/Snape (OoP and a bit from PS/SS)

[Shaun Hately]

No: HPFGUIDX 69785

On 12 Jul 2003 at 17:22, adamjmarcantel wrote:

> Adam--who thinks he has finally found the reason, despite everything 
> his head tells him, of why he respects Prof. Snape

The thing is, I was one of those kids who respected tough teachers. I 
believe entirely that different people respond to different styles, and 
I fully accept that Snape may be a good teacher, and his actions in his 
classroom may be appropriate for some students, Hermione in particular.

*But* that does not change my opinion of his actions in the 'teeth 
incident'.

That did not occur in a classroom context. It had nothing to do with his 
teaching. And it was totally inappropriate.

Two things clearly illustrate how inappropriate it was in my opinion. 
Firstly, Snape did it to Hermione - he did *not* treat Goyle (also 
injured in the same incident in the same way). Instead, with Goyle, he 
took what I would consider the appropriate response. No sympathy 
(because that would have been totally out of character for Snape), just 
a matter of fact instruction to go to the hospital wing.

When it came to Hermione, he treated her quite differently.

Now - if we had had any indication that Snape was a teacher who 
routinely varies his teaching style to deal with particular students, I 
could possibly accept that the change in his response was a result of 
that. But we don't have any indication of that that I can see, so my 
conclusion is that Snape's treatment of Hermione was purely malicious, 
and I can see absolutely no educative value in it (which I can see the 
potential for in his classroom interactions).

The second thing is one I have mentioned before - and that's Ron's 
reaction. Ron, knowing what Snape is like, knowing he's a total bastard, 
makes Hermione show him her face. Ron *with full knowledge of Snape's 
basic character* still expects him to do the right thing in this case. 
The fact that Snape doesn't is a total betrayal of everything a teacher 
should be.

Basically, it comes down to this. If Snape is a bad teacher, this action 
may not be inappropriate to his character - but if Snape is a bad 
teacher, all the ideas that his behaviour in the classroom is somehow 
meant to encourage students or challenge them, flies out the window.

If Snape is a good teacher - one who is 'tough' in the classroom because 
he believes that is the best way to motivate some students - then his 
behaviour on this occasion is, IMHO, totally inappropriate.

I don't think people can have it both ways.

Either he is a bad teacher, period, who shouldn't be anywhere near a 
school - or he's a good teacher, who on this occasion, did something a 
good teacher should never do.

I can fully accept by the way, that people make mistakes. Even a good 
teacher can make the occasional monumental blunder - and maybe that's 
what this was.

But, personally, I think this incident is qualitatively different from 
virtually everything else we've seen Snape do. And, so, it appears, do a 
number of other Harry Potter fans.

I had tough teachers. Teachers who set out to deliberately humilate me 
in order to encourage me to learn, because they knew what I was capable 
of. Teachers who on occasion, inflicted severe physical pain on me, as a 
teaching tool. And I respect them. And I admire them. And, in fact, as 
an adult, I even like them.

My problem isn't with the idea that tough teachers can be good teachers.

But there is a line at which such a teacher becomes sadistic and abusive 
to their students. I probably put that line way closer to the point of 
total evil than most people - but the line is still there.

And I think Snape crossed it.

Would I have thrived in Snape's classroom. You'd better believe I would 
have. That knowledge, however, doesn't mean I think he acted 
appropriately on that particular day at that particular time.

I do focus on this incident. Because I believe it is different from any 
other. The only incidents I think that comes close to it is Crouch/Moody 
and the bouncing ferret incident - and in the end, it turned out that 
that man was totally evil, utterly irredeemable, and not really a 
teacher at all.

(Umbridge's behaviour in Order of the Phoenix is disgusting as well - 
but I don't think anyone will defend her teaching style. Actually, I may 
be slightly different from most people when it comes to her. I don't 
object to physical punishment in some cases, so her quill didn't phase 
me that much - what disgusted me was the reason she used it).

I might add that it's not that I don't find such things funny to read. 
The Draco/Ferret incident was one of the funniest things I have ever 
read, and I loved reading it, and I really liked seeing Draco get his 
comeuppance. But the fact I find it funny, doesn't stop me thinking it 
was utterly and totally inappropriate.

I don't object to the incident involving Hermione's teeth, because I'm 
humourless. I don't object to it, because I believe teachers need to be 
all sweetness and light. I don't object to it because I think Hermione 
suffered significant harm because of it.

I object to it because I think Snape crossed a real line.

I've noted several of the Snape-apologists can't seem to understand why 
people like me focus on this. Fair enough.

But I've got my reasons, and they are real ones to me, and this is a 
discussion list. So I'll raise them.

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia