Hermione/Snape (OoP and a bit from PS/SS)

[Sydney]

No: HPFGUIDX 69792

Dreadnaught wrote:

> 
> Either he is a bad teacher, period, who shouldn't be anywhere near a 
> school - or he's a good teacher, who on this occasion, did something a 
> good teacher should never do.

Well, maybe he's a good teacher, who shouldn't be allowed to be in
charge of children.  He'd clearly be put to much better use snarking
around at grad students.  In any event, surely there's some grey area
between being a "bad teacher, period", and a "good teacher"?  They're
not eggs, you know...


> But, personally, I think this incident is qualitatively different from 
> virtually everything else we've seen Snape do. And, so, it appears,
do a 
> number of other Harry Potter fans... 

<big snip re teacher history>

>Teachers who on occasion, inflicted severe physical pain on me, as a 
> teaching tool. 

*raises eyebrows*  Goodness.  Okay, you're definitely better qualified
than me in the "truly awful" teacher department.

> But there is a line at which such a teacher becomes sadistic and
abusive 
> to their students. I probably put that line way closer to the point of 
> total evil than most people - but the line is still there.
> 
> And I think Snape crossed it.

Total evil?!  

> I do focus on this incident. Because I believe it is different from any 
> other. The only incidents I think that comes close to it is
Crouch/Moody 
> and the bouncing ferret incident - and in the end, it turned out that 
> that man was totally evil, utterly irredeemable, and not really a 
> teacher at all.

> I object to it because I think Snape crossed a real line.
> 


Okay, I'll bite.  I'm sorry, I personally used to be quite a delicate
flower in school and would certainly have burst into tears in
Hermionie's situation.  But TOTAL EVIL?!  I just can't go there with
you.  Snape was a total jackass, certainly, but I'm mystified as to
why this scene hits people so hard.  I mean, if I wanted to go on
about how cruel Snape was, I'd go through ten things he's done to
Neville before the teeth incident even crossed my mind.  

Even in my VERY limited experience of cruel teachers, I can think of
stuff being said to me on that level without half trying (I'm thinking
of what Mr. Devin said about my hair once [jackass])... I wouldn't
think of comparing it with the bouncing ferret incident, which, after
all, featured a student being flung violently against the walls by
someone who was, at the time, about a hundred times bigger than they
were.  THAT would definitely stick out.

Regarding whether Snape had specifically calculated Hermionie's
ability to "take it"-- I certainly don't think he did, but then, he'd
have to think a kid was a real timebomb to reckon four words could
scar them for life. I don't see how the teeth remark can count as
evidence of serious malice unless Snape could anticipate it causing
serious, lasting harm.

It would suck to be Hermionie, or anybody, in that scene, but do you
honestly think we're talking about cataclysmic personality collapse
for the recepient here?  It would sting for a couple of days, they'd
complain to their friends, plot revenge, flash back to it once in blue
moon and seethe... but life-long damage?  Spiritually mutilated little
tykes barely able to drag themselves through life because of
Squeers-type mental torture? The sort of life-long damage that is
lusted after by TOTAL EVIL?!?  

Dreadnaught then enumerates why this incident is particularliy egregious:

>Snape did it to Hermione - he did *not* treat Goyle (also
>injured in the same incident in the same way). Instead, with Goyle, >he
>took what I would consider the appropriate response. No sympathy
>(because that would have been totally out of character for Snape), >just
>a matter of fact instruction to go to the hospital wing.

>When it came to Hermione, he treated her quite differently

Snape didn't exactly leap into action over Goyle either, all he did
was state the obvious, "Hospital wing, Goyle".  Okay, so he neglected
saying "Hospital wing, Granger" but I don't consider that to be a
really collosal ommision, comparatively. Someone genuinely good with
children should probably have walked them both up.  Undoubtedly he had
some equally cruel remark about Goyle on the tip of his tongue;  he
just didn't say it, on account of the "must be nice to Death Eater
kids" thing.  That's as far as I'll go one the "spy cover story"
theory.  I don't think Snape needs an excuse to bark at people, he's a
junkyard dog.  Again, just par-for-the-Snape.


>The second thing is one I have mentioned before - and that's Ron's
>reaction. Ron, knowing what Snape is like, knowing he's a total >bastard,
>makes Hermione show him her face. Ron *with full knowledge of Snape's
>basic character* still expects him to do the right thing in this case. 

And Hermionie, who's a far better judge of character, quite rightly
tries to hide her face. She knows enough of his *manner* to expect
what's coming as his normal response.  A crap response obviously, but
I still think it's normal for Snape. I don't really see this as an
argument for this incident being extraordinarily cruel.

> I've noted several of the Snape-apologists can't seem to understand why 
> people like me focus on this. Fair enough.
> 
> But I've got my reasons, and they are real ones to me, and this is a 
> discussion list. So I'll raise them.

I'm not really defending Snape here, that line was indefensible.  But
indefensible like an indefensible speeding ticket, not indefensible
like murder.  I wish he could get a job away from children, both for
his sake, and the students.  But I'm still not getting my head around
why people get so freaked out about the teeth thing.

To be honest, I can just imagine myself saying something like that, on
the worst day of my life maybe-- but I've certainly snapped at people
before, and hurt them as well.  I'm worried that this keeps getting
brought up as evidence of total moral bankrupcy!   Could someone
explain this to me?

-- Sydney,  probably actually scarred for life by
mean-teacher-hair-commment, resulting in sick attraction to Totally
Evil Bad Teacher