Hermione/Snape (OoP and a bit from PS/SS)

[darrin_burnett]

No: HPFGUIDX 69795

Sydney: 

> Okay, I'll bite.  I'm sorry, I personally used to be quite a delicate
> flower in school and would certainly have burst into tears in
> Hermionie's situation.  But TOTAL EVIL?!  I just can't go there with
> you.  Snape was a total jackass, certainly, but I'm mystified as to
> why this scene hits people so hard.  I mean, if I wanted to go on
> about how cruel Snape was, I'd go through ten things he's done to
> Neville before the teeth incident even crossed my mind.  


I can justify his treatment of Neville, in Potions class. Clearly, he has no 
patience for incompetence, and Neville is, after-all, a classic screw-up in the 
class.

I dislike Snape commenting on Neville in front of Lupin, and enjoyed it when 
Lupin gave it right back to him, and, golly gee, Neville did good in class. 
There is a connection there.
 
> Even in my VERY limited experience of cruel teachers, I can think of
> stuff being said to me on that level without half trying (I'm thinking
> of what Mr. Devin said about my hair once [jackass])... I wouldn't
> think of comparing it with the bouncing ferret incident, which, after
> all, featured a student being flung violently against the walls by
> someone who was, at the time, about a hundred times bigger than they
> were.  THAT would definitely stick out.

OK, maybe I just went to St. Ignatius' School for Angelic Kids in a Perfect 
World, but I don't ever recall a teacher making fun of my personal appearance 
(and, as a fat kid who didn't lose weight until ninth grade, there was plenty of 
me to make fun of.)

I mean, not even in an attempt at humor do I remember a teacher saying 
something, let alone anything malicious.  

Obviously, this could careen off topic quickly, but that tells you where I'm 
coming from. Teachers are the professionals. The masters. 

You don't make fun of the kids' appearance. Period. 

And to be fair, this is the only such shot we've seen Snape take. He's left Ron, 
Harry and even Neville alone in this regard.  I mean, he's taken other shots,, 
about arrogance, celebrity,  teenage hormones, but nothing else on physical 
appearance. 

Now, moving on to the ferret incident. Oh, yeah, WAAAYYYY out of bounds.  
Of course, we found out much later that Moody was actually a Death Eater 
who hated Draco's dad AND Snape. 

Now, if we find out Snape is a Death Eater who hates Mr. and Mrs. Granger, 
well, OK. :)

It has crossed my mind, though I'm frankly stunned not to hear it put forward 
yet, that the tooth-incident is Snape's revenge for what happened to Draco. 

It doesn't justify it, nor does it really make much sense when you think that it 
was the Gryffindor head, McGonagall, that saved Draco's furry butt on that 
instance. BUT, it did happen as a result of a Draco-Harry skirmish and Ron 
and Harry certainly enjoyed Draco the Bouncing Ferret. Ironically enough, 
Hermione was the one most sympathetic to Draco. (Please, save your SHIPS 
for the bottles.)

 
> Regarding whether Snape had specifically calculated Hermionie's
> ability to "take it"-- I certainly don't think he did, but then, he'd
> have to think a kid was a real timebomb to reckon four words could
> scar them for life. I don't see how the teeth remark can count as
> evidence of serious malice unless Snape could anticipate it causing
> serious, lasting harm.

I think not caring whether it did or not could also be an indicator toward 
malice. I mean, there is actively trying to screw someone up and knowing you 
might and still not caring. Both are pretty vile. 

> It would suck to be Hermionie, or anybody, in that scene, but do you
> honestly think we're talking about cataclysmic personality collapse
> for the recepient here?  It would sting for a couple of days, they'd
> complain to their friends, plot revenge, flash back to it once in blue
> moon and seethe... but life-long damage?  Spiritually mutilated little
> tykes barely able to drag themselves through life because of
> Squeers-type mental torture? The sort of life-long damage that is
> lusted after by TOTAL EVIL?!?  


I've given this one some thought. Hermione wouldn't have to be scarred for 
life to want to get some revenge in the form of taking Snape to whichever 
authorities would be appropriate (not the least of which is Mr. Granger 
introducing Snape to the Muggle Arts of Dentistry without Novacaine.)

This is the jumping-off point for my "Hermione knows" theory. Hermione is 
pacified by D-Dore into dropping it.

This is a girl who nailed Rita Skeeter for revenge, who pretty cunningly lured 
Umbridge out, who was enough of a rebel to not tell anyone about Lupin, and 
who engineered the Polyjuice Plan.

My point? Anger this girl enough and you've got a little fireball on your hands. 
Would she have to be scarred for life? No, not at all.

Just mad enough to want to get even.


> >The second thing is one I have mentioned before - and that's Ron's
> >reaction. Ron, knowing what Snape is like, knowing he's a total >bastard,
> >makes Hermione show him her face. Ron *with full knowledge of Snape's
> >basic character* still expects him to do the right thing in this case. 
> 
> And Hermionie, who's a far better judge of character, quite rightly
> tries to hide her face. She knows enough of his *manner* to expect
> what's coming as his normal response.  A crap response obviously, but
> I still think it's normal for Snape. I don't really see this as an
> argument for this incident being extraordinarily cruel.

Whoa. I enjoy Oracle!Hermione as much as the next guy, but we are talking 
about a girl who is watching her front teeth grow down to her shirt collar. I 
don't know if "I must hide my face because Snape will say something because 
Snape is a bitter, cruel man who used to kill flies" is crossing her analytical  
mind.

More like, "I MUST HIDE MY FACE!"


> I'm not really defending Snape here, that line was indefensible.  But
> indefensible like an indefensible speeding ticket, not indefensible
> like murder.  I wish he could get a job away from children, both for
> his sake, and the students.  But I'm still not getting my head around
> why people get so freaked out about the teeth thing.

I keep coming back, as I always do, to who the adult in the Snape-kids 
interaction is. And over and over again, I find Snape has fallen short of that 
standard.

If Draco or Pansy had said it, then yeah, it's a good line and hey, they are 
equals. Hermione calls Pansy a cow. Pansy calls Hermione a bushy-haired 
bucktooth. All's fair until the eating disorder's set it.

But a teacher? Uh-uh. Gives me the creeps.

Darrin
-- Bushy-Haired Bucktooth Cows would rock as a band name