The Tooth Affair WAS Re: The student reaction to the tooth incident

[darrin_burnett]

No: HPFGUIDX 71133

Darrin, on Snape's git-ness: 

> > Just so we know. This is not an admirable characteristic. I 
think  
> > it gets confused at times.
> 
> Pip!Squeak:
> No, I agree with you there. It's not an admirable characteristic. 
>It is, however, a *realistic* characteristic. There are real Snapes. 
And that seems to be getting lost in this idea that Snape is the 
worst thing to ever hit the corridors of Hogwarts. 

Somehow, whether it's the size of these posts, the lengths of these 
threads, or the fact that paragraphs upon paragraphs were written on 
legal terms, the idea that "Snape became the worst thing to hit the 
corridors of Hogwarts" began.

Line up Quirrell, Lockhart, Umbridge, Moody and Snape and I'd keep 
Snape. If I needed an adult to bail me out of something and I thought 
I could talk him into actually caring, I'd probably go to Snape over 
Hagrid, on sheer magical ability alone. 

But two of those folks we know were serving Voldemort, Umbridge might 
still be and considering she thought Dementors were a useful tool on 
a 15-year-old, might as well have been, and Lockhart was serving only 
himself. I do believe Snape serves someone, whether it's D-Dore or V-
Mort.

So, yeah, I jumped the gun a bit when I said Harry has never seen a 
teacher like Snape. My mistake. There are certainly levels of 
misconduct. 

However, the depths of that misconduct weren't revealed to Harry, or 
anyone else, about Quirrell, Moody and possibly Lockhart (though he 
didn't like the guy) until they were at their most heinous, and soon 
after, these folks were gone. Umbridge was so politically powerful 
that everyone knew what she was about and had to deal with her.

Even Lupin, once all was revealed, didn't survive as a teacher past 
the next day. 

How does this get back to Snape? He's not so evil as to want to kill, 
maim, abandon, or torture students (well, maybe he WANTS to, but he 
doesn't) so I suppose I am granting that out.

But he also gets away with everything he does do, which is something 
the others did not. Is that because it is less evil? Sure.

But also because he is smarter.



<Snip all the Hagrid canon>
 

I give. I didn't have the books with me and just got blasted by 
canon. 

> Pip!Squeak:
> It is equal speculation that he would not. You have no evidence 
that  he would not have sent Hermione along if she hadn't rushed off. 
> None. In fact, you are ignoring considerable canon that Snape 
*does*  apply first aid where needed, and *does* send students to the 
> hospital wing where needed. PS/SS, CoS, PoA, OOP - in all these 
> Snape is seen applying first aid, or taking kids to the hospital 
> wing, or protecting students from harm, *irrespective* of whether 
> they are Gryffindors, Slytherins, or the Trio.
 
But again, if there are so many examples of Snape helping students go 
to the hospital wing and protecting students, then why deal with 
Hermione in this manner if he wasn't going to blow her off?


> For example, in OOP Snape prevents Umbridge from force-feeding 
Harry  Veritaserum, and stops Crabbe strangling Neville. He appears 
to  dislike both of these children intensely, but goes to some 
trouble> to protect them. OOP Ch.32 p. 656 - 657 UK edition.

There is talk about Snape's audience in many threads, including this 
one, I believe.

Snape's ultimate "audience" is Dumbledore. Were he to let Umbridge 
feed Harry Veritaserum, or let Neville get seriously injured, 
Dumbledore would be livid with him. 

In PoA, when Snape conjured up the stretchers, it is sometimes seen 
as a "true Snape" moment, but then again, if he'd marched up to Fudge 
dragging the kids up in manacles or chains, that Order of Merlin 
might not have been forthcoming. Fudge was Snape's audience there.



> 
> Pip!Squeak: 
> Uh, so physical injuries are terrible when Snape doesn't instantly 
> deal with them, but fine for Hagrid to ignore?
> 
> Presumably the burns, cuts etc. suffered by the class in the GoF 
> quote above are too minor to bother about? Or are you going to 
admit 
> that if ignoring physical injury, suffered by students through no 
> fault of their own is the 'fire him' criteria, *both* Hagrid and 
> Snape should be packing their bags?


Sure, kick both their asses out. :) Send Hagrid back to the Giants 
and Snape to the Vampires. 

> > Darrin:
> > Good point. Snape didn't bother to try and find out did he? And 
no Slytherin received a detention for the act. But, we should just 
> > laugh at double-standard bearing gits.
> 
> Pip!Squeak:
> Or maybe we should consider whether insulting, stealing from, and 
> attacking a teacher is *really* going to help them be fair and 
> unbiased when you're standing in a corridor going 'it wasn't me, 
> sir, honestly, not this time it wasn't, really sir.' [grin].

What we're saying here is that Snape is allowed to be petty when it 
comes to matters of his duties. Sure, that's realistic. Sure, that 
may even be understandable, but it is not acceptable.

And, other than Hagrid, who responds to Malfoy's taunts verbally, 
other teachers really don't seem to hold these kinds of grudges. 

> > Darrin:
> > Snape also has no way of knowing Hermione did all the above, so 
> > his slate should be clean with her.
> 
> Errr... Darrin. Hermione spent weeks in the hospital wing for the 
> potions incident. It's entirely possible that Snape figured out 
that  her stay in hospital might have had something to do with the 
> ingredients missing from his store cupboard, which are used in the 
> Polyjuice Potion. And I'm sure Snape has a very clear memory of 
> being whacked by three Expelliarmus spells in the Shrieking Shack.

But... but... that was because of the Confundus Curse. :) Yeah, OK, I 
don't think he believes that either.  

> Even if Snape did protect the children from possible criminal 
> charges by insisting that they were Confunded when they attacked 
him in the Shack [grin].

Protection MIGHT have been his goal, but his goal also might have 
been to further discredit their story, to plant the idea in Fudge's 
head that it was all rubbish instead of giving Fudge, who at this 
point, was a bit star-struck with Harry, the chance to maybe give the 
story half a chance. 

Heaven forbid Veritaserum starts getting involved and there are 
doubts about Black.


> Pip!Squeak:
> Umm... Snape is an ex-spy, an expert in occlumency, acts a part 
> perfectly in front of Umbridge. That he can say one thing and be 
> thinking about another is now officially canon. 
> 
> I have no problem in believing that Snape is deep enough to be 
> fooling Voldemort. And quite possibly Dumbledore. Which would make 
> him quite deep enough to be fooling the kids he teaches.

I don't consider "deep" emotionally to be a requirement for being 
able to lie to multiple people at once. Sure, he can keep more than 
one story in his head at the same time.

He is perfectly capable of multi-tasking when the role is needed. The 
scene in Umbridge's office is one example.

But I'm not sure he has the motivation to be multi-tasking in the GoF 
tooth scene, unless it is revealed -- and I have stated this before --
 that he felt his street cred with the Slyths was slipping after 
Draco got bounced like a ferret and needed to do something nastier 
than usual.

Darrin