Remus, Severus, mind-games? (Was: Snape: The fact that he exists)

frumenta p_yanna at hotmail.com
Fri Jul 18 23:48:05 UTC 2003


No: HPFGUIDX 71515

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Erin Hamilton 
<music4masses at e...> wrote:
> 
> Hi all, I've just joined up here recently and wanted to check out 
a few 
> posts before diving in, and this seemed like a good subject. First 
off, and 
> with all due courtesy and respect because this is all in good fun 
(right):

First of all, hi Erin, nice to meet you and if my post got you out 
of lurkdom I'm glad it did something good...


> 
> Mim (hi Mim):



>   And why should we rejoice over the fact that Lupin uses Severus 
over
> >Snivellus, anyway? Suddenly not calling someone by their hated
> >childhood nickname is something you should be complimented on?
> 
> Me:
> Remus Lupin is one of the few characters in the series that cops 
to his  mistakes and learns from them. He knows perfectly well that 
letting Sirius and James get away with their treatment of Snape was 
wrong, even if he was needy in terms of friendship. He cops to it. 
Because he knows this, he addresses Snape in a respectful manner in 
Book 3 and even compliments him  where credit is due in Book 5. I 
love the character of Snape, but he is not  reciprocating.

Remus owns up to his behaviour, that's true. That doesn't begin to 
excuse it. What I was trying to say is that while others insisted 
that Remus mustn't have ever called Snape Snivellus or joined in on 
his bullying, the fact that the part of his personality that was in 
the Marauders Map insulted Snape, quite specifically, is what I find 
rather suspect. Perhaps he wasn't always observing his policy of non-
interference.

I could never imagine Snape reciprocating to that. He was forced to 
accept a situation he hates, one of his childhood tormentors back at 
school, a werewolf and i think it's safe to say he's afraid of 
werewolves, taking the coveted DAtDA position. How could Snape, as 
we know him, treat Remus in any other way? Does that excuse him? Of 
course not. But there's a fact of life, some people have shorter 
fuses than others. The fact that Remus can act calm and chummy and 
what have you with Snape doesn't necessarily mean that he's honest 
or that Snape should be forced to bury the hatchet.

> Mim again:
> 
> >And then Remus lies through his teeth to Snape

<snip
> 
You: Um, wasn't it Lupin that gave Harry a good-sized guilt trip 
right after 
> that scene? It's not like Lupin was proud of Harry's behavior. 
Quite the 
> contrary. Importantly, Harry listens. If it might make you feel 
better, 
> Snape undermined Lupin's job at the end, so who won that bout?

In that particular scene Snape knows that Lupin is one of the 
manufacturers of the Marauder's Map. Remus lies about it, 
shamelessly and covers for Harry. It is good that he tries to get 
through to the boy what Snape himself was unsuccessfully trying to 
tell him. The fact remains that Remus lied to Snape in that scene 
and sided with a student.

The fact that Sev got Remus fired didn't make me feel that much 
better, it certainly wasn't one of his shiniest moments. However, 
there are many factors to consider, one of them no doubt the fact 
that Remus, whatever the circumstances, forgot his Potion.

Imagine a schizophrenic, lovely guy most of the time, forgetting his 
pills that one time. Isn't one time enough?
> 
> >Courteous, pleasant and mature, of course. Maturely forgets his
> >potion, pleasantly greets Pettigrew as he is about to kill him and
> >very courteously puts Harry's life in danger first by not 
revealing
> >that Sirius is an animagus and by giving Harry the Marauder's map
> >again at the end of PoA.
> >
> >I'd take Sirius over Remus, any day. At least with Sirius you knew
> >where you stood.
> 
> It's curious you say that, and Sirius is (was) may third favorite 
behind Lupin and Snape, because the joke Sirius played on Snape when 
they were young was arguably delinquent and could have resulted in 
Snape's gruesome death. That a lot more than knowing where he stands.

Well... I have a tendency to think people should read my mind... I 
loathe Sirius. I hated him even before OotP and the new book 
certainly solidified my hatred of him. Saying I take Sirius over 
Remus was a sign of my extreme Remus dislike at the moment I wrote 
the post.

It's quieted down now. It comes and goes. I don't exactly hate 
Lupin. I'd just like to see him develop more of a backbone.


 <snip> 
> Just my thoughts. This is a great group--good discussion, if a bit 
testy at 
> times. That's normal occasionally. Glad I found it.
> Regards,
> Erin

Discussion can get testy, I agree. All in good spirit, we're not 
really fighting or anything ;-)

Mim





More information about the HPforGrownups archive