[HPforGrownups] Fawkes: His Age, His Name and the Timing of Ollivander's Wand Production

[martin.soilleux-cardwell at aon.co.uk]

No: HPFGUIDX 54298

Phyllis wrote:

>>In Fantastic Beasts & Where to Find Them, JKR tells us that
>>the "phoenix lives to an immense age as it can regenerate, bursting
>>into flames when its body begins to fail and rising again from the
>>ashes as a chick" (p. 32).

Steve (bboy_mn) replied:
>The 300 to 500 year lifespan of a Phoenix is the lifespan of a single
>lifecycle. That same Phoenix might go through dozens of lifecycles.
>
>This current lifecycle was started in CoS (I think) making Fawkes
>about three years old. So he will live for another 497 years before he
>regenerates again.

I respond:

I disagree. JKRs comment implies the phoenix lives to "an immense age"
*because of* it's ability to regenerate, not that it has immense individual
life spans ("as it can regenerate" are her words). We do not know how long
a phoenix's individual life spans are, but they may be quite short, perhaps
only a few years or decades. Although not proof, Dumbeldore's comment to
Harry that he was sorry Harry had to see him on a burning day (paraphrased)
strongly implies that Dumbledore has seen him on a burning day. This
indicates that Fawkes has had at least 2 burning days since Dumbledore has
owned him (<150 years).

>From the interview it seems JKR named him Fawkes as a link to Guy Fawkes.
Guy Fawkes died in 1606 inferring that Fawkes the phoenix can be no older
than about 387 years (if CoS is set around 1993). The tradition of burning
a guy on bonfires probaby started some years after Guy Fawkes was executed
although no-one knows how long after his death the tradition began.
Incidentally Guy Fawkes was hung, drawn and quartered and his severed head
stuck on a spike - he wasn't burnt at the stake. Thus the tradition of
burning his effigy as a means of celebration probably took a decade or so
to take form. So 387 is a maximum age for Fawkes the phoenix, he could be
younger. I see a slight possibility that he could be older but a previous
owner would have had to rename him. Phoenixes are so rare and so few are
tamed that a pre-Dumbeldore owner renaming him would be an insult to both
the bird and the previous owner and that just does not sit right with me.

Remember that JKRs lifespan of a phoenix does not have to agree with their
supposed lifespans given elsewhere in folklore.

So in my view we have a phoenix no more than 387 years old at the end of
CoS, quite possibly as young as 380 depending on when the traditional
burning of an effigy of Guy Fawkes on bonfires started. Of course Fawkes
could even be younger than that - he could have been named after Guy Fawkes
at any time in history. Dumbledore does not reveal (IIRC) that Fawkes is
very old, only that phoenixes can live to be very old.

Much to my annoyance this dismantles the interesting theory that Fawkes
could be Godric Griffindor in animagus form.

Cheers
Martin (who loves logic puzzles and would make a very logical wizard)