Slytherin Stereotypes WAS Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Dumbledore's awarding ...

[Tom Wall]

No: HPFGUIDX 57385

Replies to both Darrin 
and Oryomai in this post.

Darrin wrote: 
Show me a case where a Slyth 
has done something decent and I 
don't count standing for Cedric.

Oryomai wrote: 
If you were a Slytherin and you saw the Headmaster openly supporting 
Gryffindor over you, what would you do? I might just be a bad person, 
but I would say "Screw it. I'm gonna do exactly what they think I 
will. There's no way to change their point of view."

I (Tom) reply:
IMHO, you're both talking about the same thing from different 
angles, here.

Let's try a slightly different tack – when have we seen anyone in 
*any* of the other houses do anything decent, aside from Cedric's 
clear decency and fair-play over the Triwizard Tournament in GoF?

I don't think that we have, actually, unless you consider Ernie 
Macmillan apologizing for accusing Harry in CoS, which I don't. So, 
maybe a hand's worth of instances (twice Cedric) we've seen people 
from other houses act with `decency.'

On that note, I'm having trouble understanding exactly what Darrin 
meant by `decent,' but I'm going to go with a broad definition – I'
ll consider selfless, friendly, courteous, and upstanding behavior as 
`decent.' Sorry - didn't bother to look it up.

So, I'm not going to count Harry's school saving adventures, because 
IMHO they're cheap instances of `decency,' and surely we can find 
something better than that. 

Frankly, I don't really think we've even seen the Trio behave 
`decently,' a majority of the time, in that they aren't 
particularly helpful to others (well, Hermione does help Neville out 
in Potions,) and they aren't particularly friendly or selfless with 
others outside of Gryffindor, even though Harry gets along with the 
Hufflepuffs most of the time. 

Granted, this isn't a rule, but it's generally how they behave. 
They're nice kids, but they can be just as rude and mean as the 
Slytherins we see in canon.

We've also seen people from Slytherin, Hufflepuff, and Gryffindor 
act childishly and be unfriendly towards each other, as well. I don't 
recall seeing a Ravenclaw behave this way, but since they get so 
little screen time, I'm not surprised at that. Even the usually 
gregarious twins won't acknowledge Cedric when they're about to take 
the Portkey to the Quidditch World Cup, and over a defeat in 
Quidditch from the prior year? Please.

What Darrin's really asking here is, when has *Harry* seen a Slyth 
do anything decent? So, it can only be fairly asked: does that really 
count? Since Harry doesn't hang out with the Slytherins, and since 
he doesn't like them, either, we can't possibly expect him to be 
looking for or even noticing any hints of possible Slytherin virtue. 
In fact, what seems to be the case is that Harry is more likely to 
see mildly virtuous behavior and then assume that there something 
sinister about it. He does this with Snape and Slytherin house 
constantly.

What we do see, from time to time, is that the Slytherins do appear 
to care about each other, and this is what Oryomai, I think, is 
closer to with her post – the Slytherins don't get a chance to show 
their, ahem, softer side in front of the whole school, because most 
of the school doesn't like them. We know this from book one, because 
the whole school is hoping for the seven-year-House-Champions to 
lose. The Slytherins aren't given a chance, not by the other 
students, the readership, or really, the author herself.

So let's use a few examples with Pansy, one of the few Slytherins we 
see showing any emotion ever in the series:

a) in PoA, right after the Care of Magical Creatures class: "They 
should fire him right away," said Pansy Parkinson, who was in tears."
PoA Ch.6. She's in tears over Draco's injury. This does not say 
`lacking in decency.' 

b) and right after that: "I'm going to see if he's okay!" said 
Pansy, and they all watched her run up the marble staircase." Again, 
she's running. If she was lacking in decency, we might see her 
casually stroll, or worse, Draco's Slytherin peers wouldn't care *at 
all.* This is not the case.

c) the simpering in Potions class that I already brought up.

Later at dinner, we actually see "A large group including Crabbe and 
Goyle was huddled together, deep in conversation." (PoA, Ch.6, 119) 

This is neat, because we see that there is care for Draco even beyond 
Pansy and the two goons, there's care enough to spread through a 
`large group.' Of course, Harry suspects them of `cooking up their 
own version' of events, which is just early-teenagerese for `we can 
do it but no one else can.' Let's be candid here: the trio is 
constantly cooking up their own version of events.

If you're looking for `decent' behavior, I'd submit that it's not 
all that fair to demand it of just the Slytherins – let's demand it 
of everyone equally and across the board. 

What we can see from the little bit of Slytherin interaction that we 
do get, is that they're a tightly knit group, and in my judgment, 
tightly knit groups behave decently with each other most of the time. 
So, it's an inference, but I think it's a fair one.


Darrin wrote:
And when have I ever said I won't give Slytherin a chance? I have 
repeatedly said that canon SO FAR has not given us a decent 
Slytherin. I refuse to call them something other than nasty little 
brats, based on the facts so far.

Tom:
Agreed – they do appear to be nasty little brats, and from an 
outsider's perspective (as in, not the Trio, not Gryffindor, and not 
the readership or the author) so could HHR be perceived that way. 
Let's not get into the number of times Ron has been rude and 
insulting to others for no obvious reason. The Hufflepuffs appear 
that was in CoS. And every house takes it out on Harry in GoF. 

So, what are we talking about here? Kids. And kids are cruel. And I'
d bet that most of the school is composed of nasty little brats – we 
just happen to like some of the brats more than others. ;-)
 
-Tom