Crouch!Moody and the Unforgiveable Curses

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 95794

> Carol wrote:
 > I don't know for a fact that Crouch!Moody was lying, but I
 > don't think we should accept his word as undeniable fact given
 > who he was and what he was doing. We should at least consider
 > the possiblilty that he was acting on his own and lying about
 > Dumbledore's permission.
 >
 > Do you really think that DD would have told the real Moody, who
 > apparently opposed the use of Unforgiveables even on DEs, to
 > Imperio the students? I think it's completely out of character.
 > But then, I don't buy the DD as ruthless puppetmaster theory.

 > I don't mean to imply that the real Moody was actually involved
 > here. I mean the person DD thought was the real Moody.
>
Khilari responded:
> He could have been partly telling the truth if DD had said show them
> the Unforgivable Curses but had not said to try the curses on them. I
> think DD must have given some sort of permission or Crouch!Moody
> would have got found out sooner, when the students talked about the
> lesson. If DD had known the lesson was to involve the Unforgivables,
> however briefly, he might not have realised the demonstration went
> further than he had intended.
> Or on the other hand DD could be trying to avoid the problems Imperio
> caused in the last war by seeing that these students get a head start
> in fighting it.
>
> Khilari - who doesn't think DD is a ruthless puppetmaster, but does
> think he's only human.

Carol:
Let me put it another way. If the curses are Unforgiveable, would DD
authorize a trusted teacher (the real Moody, as he thought) to risk
imprisonment in Azkaban for performing illegal curses, and possibly
damage his soul by performing Unforgiveable Curses? Look at the
requirements for performing them--you must desire to control another
human being and deprive that person of his or her free will. Even
casting it once, for educational purposes, would require that
dangerous state of mind. And Moody would need to cast it repeatedly,
on every student in the school between fifth and seventh year. Without
considering the harm done to the students, which, fortunately, is
minimal, consider the effect on the teacher who repeatedly casts such
a spell. Crouch!Moody, of course, is already corrupted *by casting the
Unforgiveable Curses*. He has helped to Crucio the Longbottoms into
insanity and Imperio'd the real Moody so he could imprison him in his
own trunk. He is, though we don't know it at that point, a maniac and
a future murderer, corrupted beyond hope of repentance by the use of
those evil spells.

The real Moody, though paranoid, is not insane, and we have no
evidence that he has cast an Unforgiveable Curse. (There are almost
certainly other ways to kill, which he does reluctantly. To perform an
AK, you have to want to kill.) We do have evidence that he considers
those who have cast such spells, like Karkaroff, as "filth." Would the
real Moody have asked DD to allow him to cast curses on students that
he has condemned others for using? Would DD have allowed him to do so
at his own risk as well as the risk to the students? I repeat what
I've said in other posts: The curses are Unforgiveable for a reason,
and I think that reason is that they corrupt the soul of those who
cast them. And if that's the case, DD would never authorize them to be
used by one of his teachers.

I ask those who disagree to look at every person whom we *know* to
have deliberately cast an Unforgiveable Curse on a human being and
find even one who is not corrupted. (Viktor Krum doesn't count; he was
Imperio'd. Neither does Harry's unsuccessful Crucio, which failed
because he lacked the desire to inflict willful pain.)