[HPforGrownups] Re: Moody!Crouch and defence against Imperius

[Cindy Jenkins]

No: HPFGUIDX 95834

Carol wrote:
> There is no need for a skilled auror to
>torture or Imperio the people he's bringing in and there are probably
>methods of killing that aren't Unforgivable.

>I read "he never descended to the level of the Death Eaters" to mean
>exactly that: Unlike Barty Crouch, he never used the Unforgivable
>Curses.

Maybe; I can see that.

The only problem I have is that we have only seen one killing curse, the AK,
and that's unforgivable.  I kind of liken it to the real world use of the
death penalty.  To kill someone (do murder) is indeed unforgivable, but is
exercising the death penalty unforgivable as well?  What about euthanasia?
I certainly have my opinions on these matters, but I think most people see
murder in one light and the death penalty in another.

Since we've seen wizards are somewhat immune to poison and fatal accidents,
I wonder how else you'd kill someone without AKing them.

I can accept that Moody didn't like AK, and I can even accept that he might
not have ever used it.  But I see him kind of like a "good cop", who would
only use force if necessary, and realizes that at times force is the only
way to resolve a situation.  If a DE was threatening a family, I think it
would be morally justified to AK the death eater to save the family.

Now, if we learn there are other ways to kill that aren't unforgivable, I
agree that Moody would probably use those.  Sirius did say, though, that
Moody never killed *if he could help it*.  (my paraphrase)  I read that to
mean that he *did* kill, but only when absolutely necessary.  And I think
that people can--in certain circumstances--kill without permanently marring
their soul.  I imagine it's the same in the WW.

Carole again:
>For those reasons, I don't believe that Dumbledore would have
>authorized the teaching of the Unforgivable Curses or that the real
>Moody would have demonstrated them, even on spiders, any more than he
>would have turned Draco into a ferret.

I agree, but I also think DD had, at some point, to find out about it.  Even
if Crouch!Moody charmed his classroom so that DD couldn't see inside, surely
DD or one of the other teachers would have overheard the students talking
about their lessons?  I can give him the first day, but after that surely DD
knew what was going on.  So either he allowed it to happen, or he had given
permission for it to happen.  I can't believe that DD didn't know about
it...

Following that logic, I think that the Unforgivable curses might not be
completely unforgivable.  There may be instances when their use is seen as
an unfortunate necessity.  They are to be avoided, to be sure, but may be
used in rare cases.

Cindy