[HPforGrownups] Re:Crouch!Moody and the Unforgiveable Curses

[Cindy Jenkins]

No: HPFGUIDX 96504

Carol wrote:
>I've written volumes on this topic, but since my posts tend to be
>long, you may have missed the parts where I've discussed what appears
>to be the corrupting influence of those curses on the soul of the
>caster. One of my arguments is the state of mind that our two experts,
>Bella and Barty Jr., have described as necessary to cast the curses.
>In the case of Crucio, you must desire to inflict excruciating pain
>that lasts as long as you choose to sustain it. (Bella says that you
>must *enjoy* inflicting pain, as she all too obviously does.)

This last week was chaos, and for whatever reason I didn't receive any HP
email for two days, then I received over 1000.  As a result, I may have
missed some of this discussion.  I decided to wade through everything before
I replied, so hopefully this isn't a repeat.

Anyhoo, on to the curses.

I agree that there's a corrupting influence, but I think to what extent
depends largely on the maturity and emotion of the caster.  For example, in
the RW we designate between murder and manslaughter.  One requires
aforethought and malice, the other might be an inadvertent result to extreme
recklessness.  There is definitely a difference between someone who murders
and a drunk driver who kills another in an accident.  Both are wrong, to be
sure, but I think the doing murder corrupts the soul much more than a drunk
driver.  To be able to do the AK, I think, requires that the person already
be a bit evil.  You can't just say the words and *bam* another dies.  It
isn't like pulling a trigger--you have to truly want the person dead.

Does Harry want LV dead enough to be able to AK him?  I don't know.  Perhaps
his use of the crutacious curse is an indicator that he's getting there.  At
the end of OOTP Harry certainly thinks he has to do murder or be murdered,
there is no other way.

That said, I'm not sure you could AK someone in defense...  Wanting to
protect yourself and wanting another person dead are two drastically
different things.  Which leads me to...

(Carol again)
>Another of my arguments is the effect of these curses on the people we know
to
>have cast them, in particular the Crouches. We see all too clearly the
>moral degeneration of Crouch Sr. when he begins to use evil to fight
>evil and of the intelligent, unloved boy who helped to Crucio the
>Longbottoms and ended up murdering his own father, like Voldemort
>before him. (BTW, Harry failed to cast a Crucio because he couldn't
>summon the evil will necessary to perform it properly. Had he
>succeeded, both he and the WW would, in my view, be doomed.)

I think the reason Harry failed is because he cast the crucio in defense.
He didn't want to hurt her just to cause pain--he was angry, and he was
trying to protect himself at the same time.  Unlike the AK, I think you can
vary the severity of the crutacious curse depending upon your intent.  In
order to torture someone into insanity you have to really, really, really
*want* to cause pain.  In Harry's case, it was more of a reaction of the
moment.

I'm not sure what you meant about the WW being doomed had Harry succeeded.
I read through a number of posts, and didn't see it.  Do you have a
different link?  On that note, though, had Harry AKed Bellatrix I think the
WW would have been doomed.  I'm not sure I agree about the crucio, but I'll
wait until I read your other posts.

Cindy