Crouch!Moody and the Unforgiveable Curses

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 96969

I (Carol) wrote:
<snip >Another of my arguments is the effect of these curses on the
people we know to have cast them, in particular the Crouches. We see
all too clearly the moral degeneration of Crouch Sr. when he begins to
use evil to fight evil and of the intelligent, unloved boy who helped
to Crucio the Longbottoms and ended up murdering his own father, like
Voldemort before him. (BTW, Harry failed to cast a Crucio because he
couldn't summon the evil will necessary to perform it properly. Had he
succeeded, both he and the WW would, in my view, be doomed.)

Cindy responded: 
I think the reason Harry failed is because he cast the crucio in
defense. He didn't want to hurt her just to cause pain--he was angry,
and he was trying to protect himself at the same time.  Unlike the AK,
I think you can vary the severity of the crutacious curse depending
upon your intent.  In order to torture someone into insanity you have
to really, really, really *want* to cause pain.  In Harry's case, it
was more of a reaction of the moment.
 
I'm not sure what you meant about the WW being doomed had Harry
succeeded. I read through a number of posts, and didn't see it.  Do
you have a different link?  On that note, though, had Harry AKed
Bellatrix I think the WW would have been doomed.  I'm not sure I agree
about the crucio, but I'll wait until I read your other posts.

Carol:
You don't need to want to torture someone into insanity to really want
to hurt them. LV Crucioing his followers to punish them or Harry to
show who's more powerful or Bellatrix Crucioing Neville in the DoM are
all examples of less prolonged Crucios that nevertheless required a
genuine evil will to cast and to sustain, however briefly. Harry
didn't have anything like the same state of mind, just the fury of an
adolescent boy at the cold-blooded murder of someone he loved, the
reaction, as you say, of a moment.

What I meant by saying that if Harry had succeeded in casting the
Crucio, he and the WW would be doomed is simply that he would have
become as evil as the teenage Barty Crouch or Tom Riddle. You can't
cast a successful Crucio unless you have cultivated the state of mind
required to cast it--indifference to or enjoyment of another person's
pain. Harry would be morally ruined if he reached that state. He would
have failed to choose the right path, he would lose his moral
advantage over Voldemort, and it would no longer matter who won. The
one person who could defeat Voldemort would be well on his way to
becoming another Dark Lord. He would have done the Unforgiveable,
succumbing to the lure of evil, and in so doing, become evil himself.

I think of the Unforgiveables as somewhat analogous to the One Ring.
Maybe that's LOTR contamination, but I don't think so. You don't use
the weapons of an evil enemy against that enemy. You have to defeat
him on your own ground, not his. The similarity between young Tom
Riddle and Harry should serve as a warning to Harry. He must not
choose the path that Tom took.

I don't know if I've convinced you, but I hope I've at least made my
position clear.