How many people know the full prophecy?/Secret Keeper

[mhbobbin]

No: HPFGUIDX 111483

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dungrollin" 
<spotthedungbeetle at h...> wrote:
> charme:
> > <snip>
> More to the point, there are *numerous* references about the 
> viability of predicting the future in the books, including 
Firenze's  > lesson in OoP where he tells the class that they 
shouldn't put too  much stock in such things and even centaurs get 
their predictions  wrong. 
> <snip>
> (Trelawny "predictions," both of them , refer to LV as "The Dark 
> Lord." What was she? A Death Eater? Is she another person who DD 
> has "redeemed?") I 'm also not sure Minerva would give a rat's 
butt if Trelawny made a prediction about anything, including Harry.
> 
> Now Dungrollin:
> There seems to be a big difference between *trying* to tell the 
> future (divination), and the two (supposedly) 'real' predictions 
> that Trelawney has made (actually being posessed of the 'seeing 
> eye'). 
> 
> In both 'true' prophecies, she is unaware of what she has said 
> afterwards. And this goes along with what she says to Umbridge 
when  being inspected... Er... Here it is: "The inner eye does not 
See > upon command!" (Which is obviously the sort of excuse that 
she'd think of, but at the same time is probably a well-known 
wizarding 
> fact.)
> 
> Dumbledore was against continuing the teaching of Divination at 
> Hogwarts, and Trelawney above the Hog's Head inn shows no trace of 
> the gift herself, until she prophesies that Harry's special. 
> Presumably he thought 'Aha, here we have the real thing!' and is 
> slowly disillusioned over the course of the next few years.

snip snip

mhbobbin:  
I think we should pay attention to everything that Trelawney sees--
but not the meaning she "divines" from her vision. Trelawney may be 
a fraud, but in PoA, she "sees" a black dog over and over.  We now 
know that there actually was a black dog that was important to 
Harry. It just wasn't The Grim, or a death omen. At least not for 
Harry. However, that dog may have been a death omen for Sirius. 
(Ever notice how frequently he is described in OotP as saying 
something "grimly". He's not alone, other characters speak "grimly" 
including Remus. And of course, Sirius lived at Grim Old Place but I 
digress.)

Sybil's divination skills seem like a joke, yes, but can she 
actually "see"?

As for the Two Prophecies, it may have been that Cassandra 
Trelawney -- a seer of great reputation although I suspect only 
after the fact--was speaking through her great-grandaughter.
mhbobbin
>
Dungrollin:
> But back to whether James and Lily knew about the prophecy... I 
> suspect that they didn't.  Dumbledore believes it, and everyone in 
> the Order trusts him ... Except that James (and presumably Lily) 
> trusted Sirius and Pettigrew more.  Frankly if I'd had the chance 
of 
> Dumbledore as my secret-keeper, no matter how much I trusted my 
> other friends, I'd have said *Yes please, that's very kind* and 
got 
> on with not letting You Know Who find me.  
> May be James really was an idiot.
> 
>mhbobbin:

Why did James turn down DD as Secret Keeper? Perhaps it was as 
simple as James worried that this would be a burden to DD. I think 
there's more to the Secret Keeper choice than we yet know, as I 
posted before. I don't believe that James was an idiot, only over-
confident. I think he turned DD down because he had his own plan to 
ferret out the Spy, which I believe he thought was either Sirius or 
Remus. Sirius didn't trust Remus. Remus didn't trust Sirius. They 
reveal that part in the Shrieking Shack scene in PoA. But we don't 
really know James' thoughts on this, only that Remus was not part of 
the Secret Keeper secret.

As for the Rat, it appears that James misunderestimated him just as 
Sirius later miscalculated the damage Kreacher could do to him later.

mhbobbin