James the Berk?

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 105483

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "delwynmarch" 
<delwynmarch at y...> wrote:
> Valky wrote : James only uses physically non-harmful hexes Snape ( 
I won't say harmless because I concede the truth of psychological 
harm), Snape employs a more dangerous attack on James than James 
even considers unleashing on Snape. Although I accept that James was 
indeed having a bit o' a lark at Snapes expense I see he was 
*already noble*. 

> 
> Del replied so duty calls....
> 
> 


Aha! It starts!
Firstly lets bow and make honour Del, this may get bloody. 
LOL, Just kidding! 
But incedently did the Snape Fangs quip rope you in? 
Well it's a bit late for apologies now, hey. Gloves are off and I 
did vow to defend......
Please take none of this personally I'm a bit of a method actor.. :)

Ok, Del says:
> I have to respectfully disagree on that point.
> 
> The reason James and Snape used different kinds of spells is that
> their *goals* were different, not their mindsets.

Valky replies:
Ok, I'll get out my trusty cut and paste function... hang on a mo...

I did indeed back this statement with some hint that I might throw 
canon at you to prove that, if James were more powerful than Snape, 
or Snape was not powerful enough, then Snapes attack could have been 
intended a mortal wounding.  Then, due only to the lack of magical 
power behind it, rather than lack of intention, resulted in the mere 
cutting of James' face. 

You want some canon?

"the Avada Kedavra's a curse that needs a powerful bit of magic 
behind it - you could all get your wands out now and point them at 
me and say the words, and I doubt I'd get so much as a nose-bleed."
Crouch!Moody, GOF, Chapter 14 The Unforgivable Curses

Therefore, I put to you Del, is it not beyond reasonable doubt that 
this influence could apply to other magic?
If indeed you can show me where a doubt is reasonable.......

Now, reminded that we are speaking of a boy only 15 attempting 
*possibly* a curse that *could* (most probably would! for my mind 
but again just mho) inflict a mortal wound upon the recipient. 

And, mind that I am postulating of course but isn't that what we do 
with Snape ;P.

The chance is, he isn't powerful enough to do it, yet. But he's 
practicing, and he *would* choose that curse over such thing as a 
slug hex or something less ummmm well sinister.

"...only because you're too noble to use them..." ring a bell to you 
at all?

But James, who although he dislikes Snape, doesn't really want to 
put the boys life at risk, would rather be content to, in his own 
dunderhead act before he thinks way, demonstrate to Snape that Dark 
magic is no substitute for the talent of a wizard like him.
So he uses silly hexes. The teasing and humiliation is a byline to 
it all. (Well there's not enough canon to actually prove that yet, 
but there will be.) 
I am only pointing out that James drew the line at killing or 
actually physically harming him but it is likely, very likely that 
Snape didn't. Even after Snape did throw the curse that cut his 
face, FROM BEHIND, he did not retaliate he humiliated. 

Could James mind not be "This is teaching the coward some humility."

Snape, after all, is part of a Slytherin Racial Prejudice Gang.

Point made. Flourish with a note from my clipboard....

....we cannot judge that James was not already noble in using milder 
counterhexes. Sirius certainly seemed to believe so...........



Del continues:
> James was trying to *humiliate* Snape, not to necessarily hurt him.
> That's why he had him fall, he had him hung upside-down, and he had
> his mouth washed with soap. He was trying to make people *laugh* at
> Snape, not pity him.

Valky:
Correct, and his motivation here was......
I already answered the "Because he exists" line so assuming that is 
out of the picture look at the canon we have remaining.

Snape was in neck deep in the Dark Arts, He exhibited racially 
prejudice behaviour.
 
Snape was an EXAMPLE.
James and Sirius took the duty upon themselves in their stupid 
teenage pride, in their overwrought cause to MAKE PEOPLE LAUGH AT 
THE DARK ARTS AND RACIAL PREJUDICE!!!


Del:
> Snape, on the other hand, was trying to win what he considered to 
be a classic wizard duel. The best and fastest way is to disable your
> opponent, hence the physically harming curse.

Valky:
>From Behind? 
Still makes him less than noble in his intentions.


Del:
> 
> And I sure don't think that humiliating someone is *noble*.
> 


Well I didn't really mean that *it* was noble.
I am sure I said that *James* was already noble.
The nobility is behind the action.
He *was* an 'idiot'. 
With a belief in something noble and a noble heart and spirit.
He didn't have to change that.
Snape on the other hand.....?

Valky
Hoping sincerely that she hasn't gotten herself into another James v 
Snape slanging match. I just want to debate the points really.... 8|